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03-13-86 Public Works Comm Minutesr • March 13, 1986 PUBLIC WORKS/SEWER AND WATER COMMITTEES 9:30 A.M. Chairmen Ruiz and Nystul and Council Members Palmer, Hafferman, and Schindler present. Mayor Kennedy, DPW Hammer, W/S Supt. Hyde, Surveyor Zavodny, Construction Inspector Van Dyke, Mike Fraser of TD&H, Dennis Carver, Richard Seddon (106 5th Avenue West), and Roger Hopkins of the Daily Interlake also present. PHASE II - Mike Fraser explained, with the help of a map with the various components colored in, Phase I reasoning and how and what it would correct. Phase II was designed to relieve present problems and provide for future needs. It will eventually carry all flow from North Kalispell. C. Palmer explained that because of dangerous conditions in 1st Alley West the City is "damned if we do and damned if we don't" do Phase II. C. Ruiz said it was his understanding that there would be two trunks and with only one what would the City do if it failed. Mike Fraser responded that the probability of failure with a new line was extremely remote. DPW Hammer said they could have two trunk lines by increasing the size of the lst Alley West pipe, but it would triple or quadruple the price of doing 1st Alley West. There was some discussion originally of two trunks when the plan was to sleeve the alley, but when the City was unable to correct 1st Alley West with a sleeve it ended the discussion of two trunks. Storm Sewer was discussed. The new storm sewer in 5th Avenue West will go to the collector on 7th and through the treatment ditch and into. Ashley • Creek. The ponding allows settling of sediment before the water goes into the creek. C. Ruiz questioned fighting environmentalists and WQB over Ashley Creek and said it might be better to put up with the flooding. Dennis Carver explained the process of approval he had gone through on this system. Mike Fraser indicated there was no criteria for disposal of storm water, no limits - just an increase of existing drainage. C. Ruiz said that a little or alot of flooding is just an inconvenience and not really a big expense to the residents and correcting the situation is not worth the great expense and having the EPA come down on the City in a few years. DPW Hammer pointed out that if the storm sewer portion of this project is not done it would increase the existing problems caused by run-off in combination storm and sanitary lines backing up into basements. C. Ruiz asked again if it had to go into Ashley Creek? Fraser explained that Ashley was the natural drainage. The Mayor asked if the City was required in the future to treat storm water could it be run through the plant. It was expalined that the separation of storm and sanitary is important and that running it through the plant was against every policy of the EPA, not to mention that the plant could not handle the increased flow. DPW Hammer said there were several things in the plan for Phase II that were not needed: 1) the water line to the Justice Center could be done at a later time by City crews, and 2) the storm system on 5th Avenue West between loth and llth Streets needs to be done but he objected to the water and street reconstruction being included at this time. Mike Fraser thought that because llth is an arterial this connection should be finished. DPW Hammer responded that the City would be able to do it this summer. PUBLIC WORKS/SEWER AND WATER COMMITTEES • March 13, 1986 Page 2 DPW Hammer also proposed that with the Contractor tearing up the street from curb to curb the City should have the Contractor bring the street to within 5"-6" of grade and have the City crews finish grade and pave. This would serve to build up the Gas Tax and Special Street Maintenance funds because the salaries and materials would be paid for from the bond and tax increment for Phase II. C. Ruiz objected to the City crews paving 5th because he questioned how the work would get done in the rest of the City. The street reconstruction program can be cut back to 1812 blocks and since they would be paving only on 5th it would not require the same amount of time as totally reconstructing the street. There was extended discussion of equipment usage costs, savings to the City, the fact that the City doesn't work for profit, depreciation of equipment, and the need for accurate cost comparisons between City crews and contractors. DPW Hammer pointed out that the figures come out very well in favor of the City. C. Nystul concurred with'the water line deletion and the llth Street deletion if the Street Department can do the work this summer, but disagreed with the paving of 5th by the City crews. DPW Hammer explained that he had just spent a considerable amount of time planning the projects for this summer and he is convinced the City crews can do it. The dollars saved in Street • funds would help rebuilt the funds that are in bad shape rapidly. He stated he felt the City would be derelict in their responsibility to the taxpayers if it was not done this way. C. Palmer said he would normally agree with C. Nystul but in this situation the Street funds need help. C. Nystul asked how it was going to be a gaining situation when the City would only be recovering actual cost. C. Palmer explained that there would be no cash flow out of the Street funds during that period. The only alternative is to shut down the Street Department to let the funds build back up. DPW Hammer added that on June 30 there will be a cash balance in the Street Department of 0. If the department doesn't draw on the account for a six month period there will be at the end of that time $100,000 in Gas Tax funds. He reminded the Committee of the Central Garage situation when he arrived and the fact that he used the same idea to straighten it out. It is no longer in the hole. The Mayor pointed out that this was the same concept that the Council had agreed to at the work session. C. Schindler said that financing the Street Department from the bond was not a free gift - somebody is still paying for it. DPW Hammer responded that it was better to keep the money in the City than to send it out of town with a Contractor. Mike Fraser suggested leaving the paving of the Center to 6th Street portion in the contract so that it would be done in time for school opening. DPW Hammer doubted that even the contractor could finish it in time for school. Width of 5th Avenue West was discussed at length. C. Schindler brought up the newspaper article. Mike Fraser said he had misrepresented it, that the first block was 41'. C. Schindler said there was no rationale for it, • that traffic would be no different when the mall was finished than now because of other routes available. Mike Fraser explained that a transition was needed from four lanes to two lanes going south. PWD Hammer mentioned traffic studies showed a possible traffic signal at that intersection in the future. PUBLIC WORKS/SEWER AND WATER COMMITTEES • March 13, 1986 Page 3 C. Palmer pointed out that 2nd Street was a collector and the first two blocks were necessary because of the heavy usage. C. Nystul said that there was sure to be a business on the corner in the future and there would be need of a parking lane. C. Schindler objected to creating a freeway in front of houses that have been residential and Mike Fraser responded that at present it was a thoroughfare using a cowpath and it presented a traffic hazard. Richard Seddon, a resident of the second block of 5th Avenue West, said that no one with any sense parks on 5th Avenue West now. He could see the justification for a 41' width for the first two blocks but would rather not have it that way. He said to use Center Street for a collector and leave 5th 31' wide the whole way - if not the City would have the same situation as in front of the Employment Office. He thought that making 5th a one-way in conjunction with a one-way on 7th was a good idea. DPW Hammer said he would like to make his last comment on this subject of the width of 5th Avenue West. He said the Public Works Department spends 40 - 50 hours a week with the Director and several other people who do not just look at 5th but also North Meridian and the Highway Department, talking traffic signals at Idaho and Meridian. We spent hours a week for two years on this putting together input from the Highway Department, from the traffic engineer hired from Wyoming, and we're not just talking about that intersection • but about the whole project - doing our job. We can make mistakes sometimes but we don't want to see the taxpayers rates go up. You have a very consciencious staff. He said he brought the Council the figures on the WWTP and showed it would be a million dollars in the hole in three years - so we're not trying to stick the taxpayers with dollars. The staff is trying to do the very best they can - they don't react on "I think this is going to work or I don't think this is going to work". He said he was sorry he had to say this but he put in thousands of hours on this project and that intersection, as well as his staff and a professional traffic engineer. He also talked to several other engineers in town who have been here a long time. So for him to say he doesn't think the City needs a 41' - it would be a bad way to do anything. C. Palmer explained that some of the confusion may have come from the fact that the first block is not the 100 block, but that the numbers were below 100, making the second block the 100 block. That is where Mike Fraser got the statement about the 100 block. There was additional discussion of traffic engineers and studies and considerations for the mall. C. Schindler stated that if the first two blocks are to be 41' he would vote down the whole project. C. Nystul suggested that perhaps the Council should take a wait -and -see attitude, leaving the 100 block at 31' using the existing curbs, and if several years down the road it was determined that 41' was needed they could go in and widen and replace curbs. DPW Hammer said he did not have a problem with that but that he wanted it noted that the Public Works Director had recommended 41' at this time. C. Palmer pointed out that the Council had agreed to both the • blocks being 41' already. PUBLIC WORKS/SEWER AND WATER COMMITTEES March 13, 1986 is Page 4 The Committee concurred on the removal from the project of the water line to the Justice Center and the paving of 5th from loth to llth, and also agreed to present to the Council for discussion the paving of 5th by City crews and the width of the first two blocks of 5th Avenue West. Additional Storm Sewer Discussion - C. Ruiz asked for a breakdown of the $418,000 storm sewer cost portion of the project and went on to list deletions of pipe, manholes, excavation in excess of sanitary excavation. Could not save $418,000 because the excavation costs are divided between the water, storm, and sanitary and would have to be picked up elsewhere if storm were not done. The storm will be paid for out of tax increment and assessments. It was pointed out that the Council has had for some months a breakdown of all this information. C. Schindler asked Dennis Carver what would happen if the City didn't do this prpject this year. Dennis replied that with the fragility of lst Alley West it would be a serious problem if the line collapsed. There was discussion of long range planning, timing, availability of funds and opportunity. The City.is trying to deal with a disaster before it hits. S/W Supt. Hyde asked if the mall lines weren't constructed to use the new trunk line. Carver responded that temporary manholes hooked the mall into the old main until the new one was ready. • Mike Fraser is to meet with Attorney Neier on when the agreement with the Contractor for Phase I can be signed. STREET RECONSTRUCTION PROGRAM - DPW Hammer explained that Montana Street had not been but should be included in the off -site improvement funding and suggested that perhaps the $150,000 for 5th Avenue W.N. would cover it. The Committee agreed that it needed to be done and that tax increment funding should cover it. AUTHORIZATION TO GO OUT FOR BIDS - DPW Hammer asked for authorization to go out for bids for fuel, gravel, asphalt, and curbs and sidewalks. The Committee was in agreement and this will be brought to the Council. FRONT END LOADER - DPW Hammer explained that the Street Department needed both a front end loader and an excavator but that there was only funds in revenue sharing for one so he would prefer getting the front end loader this year. The Committee agreed that he should go out for bids. This will be presented to the Council. CONSTRUCTION STANDARDS - The revisions of the standards are done and the Committee was asked to take some time to look over them and comment. C. Ruiz asked if contractors were allowed input and Surveyor Zavodny assured him that they were and that their suggestions were used whenever possible. WINDWARD WAY EASEMENT - Don Arthur wishes to give the City an additional 10' easement for the widening of the road. This would change his setback • to 7' rather than the required 15'. The present street is 40' and was previously accepted by the City. Surveyor Zavodny recommended that if this is always going to be a dead end there would be no problem, but there was a need of more information of future plans. Mike Fraser said that the City had approved PUBLIC WORKS/SEWER AND WATER COMMITTEES March 13, 1986 Page 5 the preliminary plat for Windward Way with the condition of an additional 10' on the street. The City could request the users to pay for the additional width as access to Developer's Diversified property. It was decided that the City should accept the easement on three conditions: That Mr. Arthur 1) waive the right of protest to any future SID's or ordering in of sidewalks and curbs, 2) pay for the cost of the survey, and 3) obtain a building setback variance. C. Ruiz asked Surveyor Zavodny to write a motion for him to present at the Council meeting. CENTER STREET CHANGE ORDER NO. 2 - Dennis Carver explained that the Finance Committee has approved but that Council had asked Public Works to review it. The Committee approved paying Change Order No. 2. C. Hafferman asked if it was the developer's responsibility to see that signals and widening of the streets, etc. was done, then why is the City paying for the mall off -site improvements. C. Ruiz answered it was because the City had sold out to the mall a long time ago. HIRING OF EMPLOYEES - Mayor Kennedy said that the Council had indicated that they wanted to be involved in the hiring of employees. His question was in what way did they want to be involved. It was decided that the Council should have access to the resume's received and that the times of the interviews • should be posted so that the Council would have the option of attending if they so chose. DPW Hammer and the Mayor explained that the interviews for the Street Superintendent would be done now and the selection made so that the new superintendent can be a part of the planning for this year's construction season, but that he would not be hired until July 1. ajg 40