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08-22-86 S&W Comm MinutesAugust 22, 1986 SEWER AND WATER COMMITTEE 8:00 A.M. 40 Chairman Nystul and Councilmen Hafferman and Ruiz in attendance. DPW Hammer, Sewer and Water Superintendent Hyde, and Meter Installer Carmen Franklin also present. (Due to an oversight Mayor Kennedy was not notified of the meeting and therefore was not in attendance.) METER INSTALLATION PROGRAM - C. Nystul asked S/W Supt. Hyde to explain his staffing concept in light of the budget worksheet showing the funding for the meter installation program for 4 months only. Supt. Hyde said the funding was shown through the end of October only. It was drawn up that way based on some discussions between Supt. Hyde, DPW Hammer and Mayor Kennedy. The perception was that the meter program was a temporary program that had been needed but should be phased out. He said he did not agree with the statement that it is temporary position, but felt that it should become permanent and an employee should be assigned there year around, but how to achieve that program and all the other ends is up for discussion. He said he had been looking at the staffing recommendations Jeff made several years ago and he had recommended that there be 6 full time employees. Supt. Hyde said he agreed with that in general and felt that there was enough work to keep 6 people busy on a year-round business. He broke the positions down as follows: 1 = Well operation and building maintenance (Gene Garner) 1 = Customer service and meters (Good PR, approx. 300 meter problems/year) 1 = Meter Reader 2 = System maintenance (Valves, hydrants, main breaks, general complaints) • 1 = Working foreman (Independent, administration, fill-in) (Steve Cox) Supt. Hyde explained each of these positions and the need for them in detail. C. Ruiz asked who would fill each position, and Supt. Hyde stated it would have to be according to senority. Present staff includes Steve Cox, Gene Garner, Becky Glidden, Randy Vickhammer, Jeff Wolf, Mike Hall, Carmen Franklin, and Joyce LeDuc. He stated that the above positions were minimum needs - a total of 6 poeple. That is two less than what we have and according to the law the two with the least senority would have to be let go. C. Ruiz asked if Joyce (Meter Reader) was going to be put on full time. Supt. Hyde explained that she was already full time. C. Ruiz asked if she wasn't working only half days and wasn't that what we were paying her for. Supt. Hyde said she was paid half out of sewer, half out of water. C. Ruiz asked if she was paid out of the office when she worked there. Supt. Hyde said she does do office work and has now been moved down to the Water Warehouse. She is no longer filling in for Marki and doing office work in City Hall. DPW Hammer said that that problem had been discussed about a year ago - the problem of having the meter reader working 5 weeks reading meters and three weeks doing clerk's work. He had tried to change that but Mayor McDowell had said they needed her in the clerk's office and put her back there again. Since Mayor Kennedy arrived and understood the situation she has been moved out of the City Hall office and clerk and receptionist duties. Supt. Hyde explained that the 6 positions listed were the year-round minimum and two less than what he had now. Would be possible to have a larger • staff gainfully employed year-round, but he saw this list as the bare minimum. During the summer, in addition to this minimum, there are alot of taps and construction, and he would like to add two persons. Many of this could be split between the maintenance people and the meter person. The biggest addition SEWER AND WATER COMMITTEE Meter Installation Program 41 August 22, 1986 Page 2 to the summer workload is main installation. Last year several blocks were put in, this year more were scheduled and they did put in a block of 4th Avenue West North and some down at South Meadows. All the other blocks were contracted out. If the Water Department were to install mains themselves in earnest, a crew of four persons devoted to main installation only would be needed. But this year only $75,000 is devoted to main replacement and 3rd Avenue East is going to take up a good portion of that. DPW Hammer: This budget is at 1.1 million dollars and there is only $700,000 worth of revenue, so when it was submitted it was considered preliminary to go over what we could and could not do. By the time items were cut there was only about $25,000 left for water main replacement. Supt. Hyde remembered going from $187,000 to $75,000. C. Nystul said we had $220,000 the City is paying for the mains outside of the tax increment on the 5th Avenue West project, and that pretty well wipes out the main replacement program for the current fiscal year. C. Hafferman questioned the amount and the fact that there was then none left to replace mains elsewhere. C. Nystul said there is not alot left. C. Hafferman asked about staffing for main replacement in the summertime and Sutp. Hyde responded that you would need an operator, someone driving truck, and two people on the ground -'one in the ditch and one running materials back and forth. C. Hafferman asked if there had not been enough money this • year to put in any more than were done, and if there was a need for more to be done. Sutp. Hyde explained that we try to replace the ones in the streets that are being reconstructed because you don't want to do a street and leave a 50 - 100 year old main under a new street. This year have been fighting a pretty•tough schedule with the work north of the mall, but have contracted out when there was a tight schedule. Supt. Hyde said not only is the department understaffed but also underequipped. The contractors who are putting the mains in have trucks, excavator (much larger than our equipment) - and if we had comparable equipment we could do a comparable job. As it is when we try to do the job with the manpower and equipment we have we look bad. C. Hafferman said she was not in favor of firing people to save money because she sees the City pouring money down arathole. She felt it didn't make sense to lay off people when the department could keep them busy. She asked if Supt. Hyde had looked at the budget and couldn't find any money to keep these people on. He said there was some places for savings: he said one of the largest chunks was for electricity and he would like to spend some time looking for alternatives for savings there. None of the other things are able to be pared back much at all. Telemetry and the water warehouse were cut out. Cutting out materials funding at the same time cuts back on the work that would keep the crew busy. Carmen Franklin asked if she could interject something and stated that when Jeff recommended staffing he did recommend 6, and that before she and Michael Hall were hired there were seven employees, but when they came there • were 700 meters that needed replacing - so the job was not being done. Out of the last five gate boxes that they had located to turn off (in the middle of the street) three have been buried under the asphalt and two didn't work, which says that the maintenance has not been done. As far as she could see there has not been an active program for maintenance of gate valves or main SEWER AND WATER COMMITTEE • Meter Installation Program August 22, 1986 Page 3 valves. When she talked to Gene about that he said if one doesn't work you just go down a block or so to one that does. She stated that you don't save money by letting the water system go. She had talked to someone in Whitefish and they exercise their fire hydrants twice a year - Kalispell doesn't do theirs at all. C. Hafferman said she thought that Carmen was right - we will be losing money if we don't do maintenance that is necessary. ' She stated that Carmen and Mike had made a good case for really trying to find the money for keeping them on. She said that in talking to Carmen and Mike, Carmen said that they did not understand that the job was temporary, but she told them that was the breaks, it was in the past and couldn't be fixed, however, she didn't feel that the maintenance had been done in the past and one of these days all hell was going to break loose under the streets of Kalispell and the City was really going to be in trouble - because the money spent on 5th Avenue and the budget being short so there is no money for maintenance. It doesn't make sense to lay off people and not do maintenance. When complaints were mentioned, C. Hafferman_went on, one of the clerks she works with in the bookstore owned a big house on the east side, moved out and rented it, and immediately the water bill doubled. She came to City Hall and questioned it, and the response was not that someone would be over to check to see if there was a leak, or that the rates had gone up - but only "Well, I guess that is the way it is." and took her money. She told her to come back and • ask that someone come and check to see if there was a leak. The PR work that they are doing is important - one of the things needed to be done is to respond just like the police and fire. If there is any other place to save money she felt that Carmen and Mike should be retained. She didn't feel that Joyce could keep up with replacing worn out meters and said she agreed with Carmen that when meters wear out they quit reading and the City loses money when it is estimated. Another good example is where a man built 4 townhouses (Ponderosa). The plumber came in to put the meters in and called City Hall and called City Hall and nobody came to his response. He put in jumpers and they were in for two years and nobody got paid. No one got a bill and the City didn't get paid. That is how you lose money - by not having people to do the things that need to be done. Supt. Hyde agreed that the meter program is important and necessary, _ and to have a person devoted to it year around. DPW Hammer pointed out that this is no different than the AI's or any other department. The minutes of the Sewer and Water Department in December of 1984 state that this was a temporary position, to clarify that point - it could last several months or two years. Steve, who did most of the research on this, said that two installers would within 5 years have the meter program up to date. They have been here about two years. They were told it was temporary positions. Secondly, the 243 meters that were being estimated have been taken care of. Just like the Street Department and the Garbage Department - nobody likes to lay anybody off, but it comes down to how much money do we have to do this job. He agreed with her that more were needed in the Water Department, but this is a bad year • because of the work on 5th and using up the cash reserves. In the Water Department funds there are only about 5 line items that could be changed, and even those can't. Water warehouse ($100,000) has been scratched, telemetry ($65,000) has been scratched, meter is $19,000 and hydrants is $20,000 and main replacement is down to about zip. Take a look at each line item and they are down to SEWER AND WATER COMMITTEE Meter Installation Program • August 22, 1986 Page 4 as low as possible. A few hundred dollars might be picked up here and there but that is all. The money just isn't there this year. C. Hafferman agreed but said that her general attitude is when she hears "but that doesn't come out of the general fund" - to her wasting money is wasting money no matter what pocket it comes out of, and then you lay off people because you have wasted money. She said she felt that what was needed was a finanacial director. You are nit picking over whether they are temporary or not - whether they knew it or not, they claim they didn't, that is the rules of the game. How many houses are there in Kalispell - if this is supposed to be a temporary job, you figured that in 5 years every meter that was old would be replaced, and they have been here for two years, so the program isn't over yet. Carmen said when they started and talked with Mayor Mc Dowell he did say that this was a pilot program and you can interpret that.to be temporary. He did say that it would be reviewed after one year. Last December she and Mike started on a chart. They have a map that would give the Committee a visual idea of what was accomplished last year. All of the meters that were changed out. She said that she didn't know that anybody present had seen that, or that anybody had reviewed the material they had prepared. She thought • all that would be done in February. Supt. Hyde said that he had reviewed it and prepared a memo to the Mayor summarizing the accomplishments and recommending that the meter program be allowed to continue. He thought that staffing -wise it was reasonable to go from two to one - have one full-time person. When he talked to the Mayor and DPW Hammer about that they didn't support the program even enough to have one person full time, but he did offer that information and that was my recommendation. C. Hafferman said to Supt. Hyde that the people in his department ought to know that so that it does not come as a sudden shock that Carmen and Mike are to be laid off. If that is the memo that was given out earlier then the people in your department ought to know that. You have a personnel problem when you cut people off short. They should be warned ahead of time so they can go look for a job - not at the last minute when the budget comes up to say "You're going to lose your job." It seems this is a problem in City Hall all the time - this isn't the first example. They should have the option of going out to look. Like the one kid said, I wouldn't have bought a house three years ago if I had known I was going to be laid off. Supt. Hyde said he knew there had been alot of indecision and changing of positions regarding what is going to happen - sometimes seems like a yoyo. Carmen asked about the $279,000 mentioned in an earlier meeting which was set aside in an emergency fund. Is that an amount that is set aside every year? It was explained that this was not a yearly budgeted amount but an isare fund, and that it used to be about $700,000. Good cash reserves are necessary for capital improvements and emergencies - and really should be about a million dollars. If the City had had a good reserve they wouldn't have had so much trouble with the funding for 5th Avenue West. C. Hafferman asked if nothing had been saved in the past. C. Ruiz said they had been trying SEWER AND WATER COMMITTEE • Meter Installation Program August 22, 1986 Page 5 to save it, but this is what happened to it. Since he came on they had lost about $400,000. In other words we are going backwards. Supt. Hyde said that when they totaled up the proposed spending for this year it exceeded the anticipated revenue and all the money on hand - it was a full blown budget with all needs identified, and then had to be cut back to fit the anticipated revenues of $736,000 and the cash on hand of $379,000, adding up to 1.1 million. The original budget was 1.15 million, so there was actually enough to break the water funds and leave us $50,000 in the hole. C. Nystul said the City has substantial pressing needs within the system such as the telemetry system, which was installed in the late 40's or early 50's. That is a serious problem because of the way the system runs and it needs to be updated and made more reliable. He asked Supt. Hyde if he would do hydro -flushing in the winter time, and the response was negative. And valve operation can't be done in the winter? It depends - if you find a valve box full of water and frozen there isn't much you can do. C.-Nystul asked if there wasn't a risk of turning the valve and starting a leak and having to dig down through the frost to repair. You don't do valve exercising in the winter, but maintenance like finding the boxes and cleaning them out could be done. During the winter alot of the general maintenance cannot be done. C. Nystul said that then the people who are doing fairweather maintenance • can during the winter time be working on meters and meter problems. Supt. Hyde said that if there was enough meter work during the winter several people could be working on that as necessary. C. Nystul asked if he was contemplating even further reduction through the winter - would that be a recommendation? Supt. Hyde said the six people he had recommended, one is devoted to meter reading, one to well operation and building maintenance. The customer service needs a person during the winter - not only replacing meters but working with people on why their bills are so high. That takes up alot of time and it is a real blunder not to do deal with those people. They complain when the bill comes in, and if you don't go out and give them the attention then you don't hear from them for another 60 days. Then when the next bill comes in they still complain. At least three of the positions will be kept busy year around. The other three will also, but like system maintenance will have to change during the winter months. It is possible but he would not recommend going any lower than 6 employees. DPW Hammer asked what six full time employees are going to do from November to March or April depending on the weather. Supt. Hyde said he had explained three. The other three: two are lumped into system maintenance - valves, hydrants, main breaks. That is something not talked aobut yet. Last year was a mild year - there were only a few, but nothing that would require keeping a crew on all winter to deal with main breaks. He checked just to make sure that wasn't a freak year, and pulled a work order book off the shelf: winter of 1983-84 there were 5 breaks and the labor totaled 64 hours in 6 months for main breaks. Based on last year and this sample you can't justify keeping people on waiting for main breaks. He felt he would have to rely on Steve is as working forman to delegate tasks to the remaining two system maintenance people. There are alot of miscellaneous tasks done on a day to day basis that would need to be done, but it would be either his responsibility or Steve's to keep the crew busy. Alot of time needs to be devoted to the wastewater SEWER AND WATER COMMITTEE • Meter Installation Program August 22, 1986 Page 6 treatment plant, and this year would like to devote even more time and will have to rely on Steve more to delegate tasks and keep people busy. Jeff Hughes had a memo listing equipment maintenance as 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, and did not include main breaks. DPW Hammer explained that at that time the Water Department was maintaining their own vehicles but they got out of that but having the Central Garage do the work. That is why there is a transfer of $10,000 or so to the shop. Supt. Hyde said that one task needed during the winter is shoveling the snow out from around hydrants, but there might be a dry spell with no snow. C. Nystul asked if that was not a good job for the Fire Department and there was general assent that it was. C. Ruiz said he didn't think this was their job. C. Hafferman said it came up for discussion. He said he realized it had gone around but they knew what the budget is. They did_ this to the Street Department apd they took it out of their hands and it was an administrative matter, and the Mayor wrote the letters, and he protested at a meeting because he never got a copy, and now all of a sudden they are pointing a finger at us (the Committee) and saying it is our decision, and it is not our decision. He stated that he was not an administrator and he wasn't going to be one - he was a policy maker. The dobudget is there and you people have made the recommendations. That is all I have to say, he said. Carmen stated that when the last meeting had been held it was something that was talked about casually at the end of the meeting. A week later when they asked Supt. Hyde about it he had just come from the Mayor's office, and the Mayor had asked him about the situation and had said "Let's keep them." So they have been back and forth - in limbo. C. Ruiz said that the Committee was not responsible for what had been said. DPW Hammer said it was probably just like the situation with the AI's - you don't want to lay anybody off and you try to keep them, and wait till the last minute and try to find any way you can to deep them, and when it gets downtothe bottom line the budget dictates how many people we have working for us. C. Ruiz said the recommendation of the Police Chief was to keep the program, so the Committee went with that. It was the Committee's idea to cut it. This is a different situation - the recommendation is coming from the department heads. C. Nystul pointed out that if they had their preferences there would be no question about keeping Carmen and Mike because they have done a good job and there has been good feedback and PR from the public. It is just that the senority. When Main Street was rebuilt the Water Department came to the Committee and said they needed one person, a temporary, to assist in the hook-ups on Main Street. Main Street came and went and that person is still on the staff. The Water Department came to the Committee and said we need two more people to take care of the backlog in the meter program, so now we have three more people in the Water Department than we had in the past. Carmen commented that it • was kind of a trade-off because they didn't hire anyone for.Bill Mauer's job. C. Nystul said they are still two over. The water system has not expanded, the City has not grown that much in the last few years and the system has not expanded over what Joe Longpree and Roscoe and Ivan used to take care of. He didn't doubt that there is system maintenance such as valves, etc. SEWER AND WATER COMMITTEE Meter Installation Program August 22, 1986 Page 7 that has not been taken care of. One of the things that Jeff got in the budget was for the hydraulic valve exerciser, which we have. Carmen said it was not used. But C. Nystul said we are gaining slow but sure. Supt. Hyde stated that when he drewupthis summary he kept personalities out of it and attempted to define manpower needs and establish a number for what was needed. One thing that has not been talked about regarding personalities is Joyce. She is pregnant and expecting in December and there will be at least a temporary position there. She will be taking maternity leave and it is hard to predict whether she will be coming back or not. At this point she believes she is. My experience has been that that can change. There is one position with a high degree of uncertainty. That should be encouraging to Carmen and Mike. She will take 90 days maternity leave. DPW Hammer asked if they were not considering using the present staff and Supt. Hyde responded that if they were not busy with other things they could do that. He said he would have to rely on Steve to makesureno one is standing around. C. Hafferman had to leave for work but stated that she thought if there were any way possible Carmen and Mike should be kept. C. Ruiz said that the problem to him was that the City is not getting enough revenue. The rates are too low - seeing the rates from other cities show that Kalispell is not • charging enough. He compared his phone bill. C. Hafferman said rates were not raised as they should have been and so when a big jump is taken everyone screams. If you are not taking care of the water system and it is not being maintained . . . Supt. Hyde stated that in looking for places to pare the budget back, he has $20,000 for replacing hydrants, and we are putting in. Perhaps if you didn't want to devote that specifically to hydrants you could take it from the 5th Avenue West project. C. Nystul reminded him that last winter there were 3 or 4 fire hydrant failures at fire scenes. It was agreed that the hydrants need to be replaced. If ever there is a major failure the City is going to be in trouble. C. Ruiz stated again that the revenue must go up to cover the costs. Supt. Hyde said that the problem with raising the rates was that there would then be more and more people complaining and that _ would take more manpower. Supt. Hyde mentioned that Mike Hall would have attended the meeting if he had been in town, but he was not. His absence is not an indication of a lack of interest. aj g 0 The meeting broke up with regrets about losing two good employees.