01-21-88 Safety Comm MinutesPUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE
JANUARY 21, 1988
. The meeting was held in the Conference Room at 3:00 P.M. Present were
Chairman Sandy Schindler, Conmittee Members Saverud and Atkinson, Mayor
Kennedy, Fire Chief Larson, Assistant Chief Waggener, Police Chief Clark,
Assistant Chief Hossack, Councilman Furlong, City Attorney Neier, City Clerk
Halver and Roger Hopkins, DIL.
ACCIDENT REPORT:
Chief Clark reported, as required, that one of our officers was involved in
a minor accident at loth Street and 1st Avenue East. He had just completed
a disturbance call, was responding to another and slid through a stop sign
in the snow. He explained the details that resulted in about $400 damage to
another vehicle. A Highway Patrolman did the accident report, which has
been turned over to our insurance company. The officer has been counseled
on defensive driving and necessarily a temporary letter has been placed in
his file. Clark pointed out that the officer is particularly conscientious
and handled this incident in the most professional manner.
EAGLE TRANSIT REPORT:
Assistant Chief Hossack reported that a small bus is being used on the route
and this causes concern, also the weather constraints have not allowed
installation of all signs. Only two parking spots affect the downtown
business parking -an ordinance is needed to enforce the restricted parking.
Schindler stated that Eagle was to have worked out a parking system with DPW
Hammer and objected to signs appearing in areas that were not agreed upon.
He questioned the full-time loss of parking spaces for the few minutes they
• are needed by buses.
Chief Clark explained the origin and present schedule of Eagle Transit. He
said his department's position is to bend over backwards to cooperate for
the apparent benefit to senior and handicapped citizens, but it must be
refined. Schindler would like to see records kept on passenger loads, etc.
in view of the fact that public parking zones are affected, on the
questionable areas in the downtown spaces. Discussion of using fire hydrant
zones for loading, this possibility will be investigated. C. Furlong asked
if Eagle Transit is PSC licensed and regulated, Chief Clark will check on
this.
NOFUB ESTERN TELEPHONE COMPANY REQUEST:
Northwest has requested earlier and is again requesting four 15 minute
spaces near their entrance on Washington Street. Discussion followed.
MOTION:
Saverud moved that it be recommended to Council to authorize signing those
parking spaces on the south side during business hours on Monday through
Friday. Seconded by C. Atkinson, carried.
MANAGEMENT OVERTIME:
C. Schindler turned this subject over to Chief Larson to explain the
position of Chief and Assistant Chief in ambulance operation. He addressed
his remarks particularly to C. Atkinson and C. Furlong to define background
on ambulance service. An emergency call sends two drivers out immediately
and two off -duty people are called in to keep a full complement of manpower.
This is also done in non -emergency situations and either on or off duty
• personnel handle this type call. The call list, which contains all 20
firemen including Chief and Assistant,i.nvolves time and one half overtime
pay for off -duty people, has been part of the working agreement since at
least 1962. He explained the mechanism of the call list, which is utilized
in a fair and equitable mariner. About 75% of these calls come after
midnight. Larson defined the amount of training required for ambulance
response -a minimum of 50 hours -but more like 100-125 hours -outside training
per year to stay certified. Larson feels that updated training through the
years has resulted in ours being the best trained ambulance crew in the
state. It would be difficult for both Chief and Assistant to stay current
with training if they are not involved with the ambulance system.
Larson asked for concerns of the Council the system has worked for 25+ years
and they wonder what needs to be fixed. The bargaining unit has no problem
with this. C. Saverud responded that the system is very well run, the
problem was addressed for a few months a few years ago, then unfixed. In
his eyes, the problem is the legality question of whether or not the city
has a way of determining an hourly rate for management people and if
overtime can be paid to them. Operation questions will have to be discussed
later.
Chief Larson agreed that Council has legitimate concern in that they are not
members of the bargaining unit, yet he and Assistant Chief Waggoner are
doing work that may be more appropriate to the bargaining unit. At this
point their overtime is not a problem with that unit, it is doubtful if it
ever will be. Much discussion followed on this. C.A. Neier pointed out
that there were two problems: The Contract does not authorize the Chiefs to
be called back and State and Federal laws must be complied with on overtime.
C. Saverud stated there was an attempt about five years ago to financially
make an adjustment to compensate, and for a few months the agreement made
did work. Later a councilmember and the Mayor disposed of the agreement.
Clerk Halver reminded that overtime pay is paid out of the Ambulance and not
the General Fund and they are not working overtime as administrators, but
rather as first response firefighters. If a general alarm fire occurs, the
Chiefs would take over as fire administrators without overtime.
C. Saverud asked if there were some legitimate way for the two to have
membership in the bargaining unit and still be administrators. He cited a
similar incident with the KPA which would have been to both KPA and City's
benefit, and although the bargaining unit approved, because it was contrary
to state law it was denied.
C. Saverud asked if the main concern then was not that the Chiefs should not
be compensated to drive the ambulance on emergency runs, but simply that
they are compensated as management overtime. C. Furlong said he felt this
violates the negotiating agreement. C. Saverud felt that the management
position they were hired for is to run the fire department, which includes
an ambulance company. If that takes 40-50-60 hours a week, that has to be
reflected in their annualized salaries. That is where it ought to be
addressed. He does not see any legitimate room for any rationale for
developing overtime schedule. This was followed by much discussion on
firefighter function.
• Chief Larson felt that the councilmember's perception of the problem is they
fear involvement with a legal liability re violation of the labor contract
and that is a concern. He asked for a written legal opinion from Glen. He
stated that they have always put in whatever hours it takes to do a job
without complaint. Discussion of having just FMr's run ambulance services.
C. Saverud said the question that needs to be answered immediately is the
legitimacy of overtime - the second, everyone must sit down very soon and
discuss the whole operation of the ambulance company. He doesn't know any
other enterprise that 100% of their labor costs are at a minimum of 1 1/2
tirres-there is no straight time -it is all 1 1/2 times. He had asked the
former Chief to figure how many full time firefighters could be put on the
staff at the same wages. Perhaps the staff could be increased 1 or 2 people
per shift, there would still be overtime call-back but would have more
manpower when needed.
It was decided that Duane and Ted will go out on calls if no one else is
available for the time being.
Chief Larson feels that our rate schedule is behind, they have not been
raised for about 4 years. They are considering charging for expendable
items, which has not been done previously.
Mayor Kennedy preferred to wait on a committee recommendation until the City
Attorney's opinion is determined. C. Schindler stated that the present
practice cannot be discontinued but it is hoped to be have a recommendation
for council action by the second meeting in February.
The meeting adjourned at 4:30 P.M.
Markie Sabol
Recording Secretary
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