07-14-87 Parking Comm Minutes4__ ti
July 14, 1987 PARKING COMMISSION 4:00 PM
Chairman Gordon Pirrie and Commission members Colin Wills, Bob Ivey
and Gary NcCarthy were present. Dave Waterson, manager of American Parking
Co. from Great Falls, Melvin Kinkade manager of the company's operation at
Glacier Park International Airport attended; also, Police Chief Addison Clark,
Nick Haren of the Chamber, Bob Tuman of Budget Tapes, Ross Plambeck of CDD
and Roger Hopkins of the Daily Interlake.
Chairman Pirrie opened the meeting and introduced the APCOA, Inc. manager
Dave Waterson and manager of the company's operation at Glacier Park International
Airport. He then asked them to give their presentation/recommendations for help-
ing to solve our parking problems, which mainly concernthe employees and owners
of businesses parking on the street.
Mr. Waterson stated that he had most all the data he felt he needed to make
suggestions, except for revenue figures. He also stated that they really did
not have a presentation as such, would rather the commission tell them what they
want and see if they would be available to respond to our needs. He said they
would certainly do a more indebth study if need be.
Chairman Pirrie then stated there is a $2 overtime parking fee for .lots and
$5 on the streets, one metermaid, and that the commission pays for 2 & 1/3 people,
one is a fulltime person in the police dept. that deals with tickets and the police
chief who gets his brain picked very often because of parking tickets. C. Pirrie
also stated thatthey had looked at the Salem Plan which was with computering of
license plates and progress tickets, and they'd. considered doing that. There is
• some talk about putting meters back on the street, which is just talk, and not
really serious at this time, and he is personally not in favor of it himself.
C. Pirrie asked Gary McCarthy about the First Interstate lot, if and where
the stands would be located. Gary stated they haven't decided yet what they were
going to do. He stated there is also the bank against the Eagles building as well
as Norm's. Two in have stands for meters to go on, much more than that and there
would be customer problems. C. Pirrie stated there had been some discussion on
some type of enforcement program without meters; such as chalking tires after
z hour, 1 hour, 2 hour and then let the parking authority or whatever they come
up with enforce it, as something else to consider. So what the commission wants
from APCOA, Inc, at this time is what we can do do solve our problems. He looked
over the figures from 85/86 revenue but did not feel comfortable with them,
so said he would do more research on them. He stated that the revenue is down on
most lots but a couple are still at 100%. The last meeting there was discussion
of reducing rates in the lots to get people off the streets and raising the fine
on the street, but enforcing it is a problem.
C. Pirrie then stated to Mr. Waterson and Mr. Kinkade that that is pretty much
our parking situation and we would like them to come up with some sort of plan.
We don't have alot of numbers at present for them, but possibly they could come
up with some sort of number of people that it might take to solve the problem.
He also stated that all of the commission members would be more then willing to help
and asked if anyone else had anything to add. Colin Wills stated that since the
inception the revenue has been afairly average figure throughout the years, at
about $38,000, from meters, but not including fines, etc, that figure has slip-
ped the last few years since paving main st., but still holding quite well.
Parking Commission
July 14, 1987
page 2
Mr. Wills also stated that the budget makes the payment for the lot south
of the Eagles to the tune of $19,000 twice a year. He feels that possibly they
should hire another part time person to patrol the approximately 1300 parking
spaces, as one person just can't cover the entire area. Then possibly taking
down the license numbers of the habitual offenders, bringing them back to this
committee and calling and pleading with them to please stop.
C. Pirrie asked Mr. Waterson how they handle this problem in Great Falls.
He said that Great Falls has meters, and also an enormous amount of parking,
however, the monthly price for parking in a lot is so reasonable that it would
be more costly to park on the street and feed the meter. C. Pirrie asked where
most of their revenue came from and Mr. Waterson said from the meters. He also
gave a suggestion that after chalking a car, make it illegal to be parked within
that entire block after an hour, they would then have to move the car to a dif-
ferent block. This might require an ordinance change but would be one way of
keeping them from moving backward or forward to another spot or wiping off the
chalk mark. Colin Wills stated that when the meter ordinance was passed it was
stated that 'it shall be illegal to park over 2 hours whether you pay the meter
or not'.
Mr. Waterson stated he had observed that it costs nothing to park for two
hours on the street and therefore people would rather pay the ticket than pay
the price for the lot. He stated that making the time longer in the lots and
the cost less might help.
C. Pirrie stated that we were back to the enforcement issue again. He asked if
we have enough parking to warrant employing APCOA to do our part. Mr. Waterson
stated yes. C. Pirrie asked if in the City of Great Falls they were completely
out of the Police Dept with an office in city hall or what. Mr. Waterson explained
that they have a three tiered operation; they provide the city with 160 hours of
enforcement, maintainance and collection. That provides basicly four fulltime
people, and they also lease out the spaces in the parking garage and maintain
it. They have a cashier and do 3900 hours per year, 12 hours a day, 6 days a week,
some additional time over holidays. They have 6 surfacelots, those in high use
area are checked five times daily. Their office is in the parking garage.
Parking tickets are written by them, but the director of finance does all of the
collecting. The city commission granted them the authority as a private firm,
through an ordinance to write tickets. The parking in Great Falls comes under
the Director of Public Works, it was taken out of the Police Dept. years ago
and Mr. Waterson coordinates all his actions with the Director of Public Works.
In answer to Colin Wills question about out of county curtesy tickets, Mr.
Waterson stated they give 2 hour curtesy citations, which say thank you for stopping in
Great Falls.
C. Pirrie discussed with Chief Clark and the other members with the figures
for annual revenue from tickets, parking permits and fines/forfitures. They
seemed exceptionally high, so they will rechecked before next meeting. He also
explained that all the leased lots are on a 70/30 split. There are only four
city owned lots, so something might have to be done to increase revenue from lots
if they employ a private agency such as APCOA. The main concern is still enforce-
ment in getting them off the streets.
APCOA works on different types of contracts, and every town has such a
different set of problems that the type of contract depends on each city's problems.
Parking Commission
July 14, 1987
page 3
Bob Ivey stated that he felt that if theywere going to hire a private agency
to take care of our parking problems they're going to have to spend a good deal
more money then they are presently. Mr. Waterson said they need to have some
specifics, such as; how many hours a week we would want - 30/60/80 hours; would
they be wanted to repair meters, replace poles, etc. C. Pirrie stated that the
commission would like APCOA to come up with a list of questions that they could
address, because they would have to go out to bid according to state law. Also
any suggestions they may have as to what might work best for this city, and any
other input they may have. Also how long a contract would be needed, and one
we could desolve if it wasn't working for either party. Mr. Waterson said they
like to go for 3 - 5 year contracts if at all possible. They are in a number of
cities in Montana, different contracts, Great Falls is the only city-wide contract
that they have at this time.
There was discussion on the use of a 'boot', to which Mr. Waterson stated
a private factor cannot use one, but a municipality can legally do so. He also
stated that it appears that we have adaquate parking in the city just a problem
with on street enforcement. C. Pirrie also stated that the commission has bond
monies still available to purchase additional property, approximately $400,000
and a year and a half to use it. If a bigger and better use comes for the cur-
rent lots, they could be sold and other properties acquired.
• Gary McCarthy stated he agrees that the cost of ticket on the street be more
or less and cost of parking in lots be more or less to maximize revenue to pay
for private services. Mr. Waterson suggested making the lots $1 for all day and
parking on the street for just one hour. C. Pirrie also stated that a few years
ago a survey was done and there was a need for 1900 parking spots. Those numbers
have changed somewhat, but the college has 800/1200 students that attend weekly
and maybe that should be addressed seperately. He has made a proposal to buy
some of the property owned by the college north of town, helping them get out of
town then buy intown property for parking, either short term or long term basis,
whatever the demand for the land would be. There was also discussion on public
and commission feeling of having one hour parking. When asked how long it would
take to get a program going if the commission decides to go with a private agency
Mr. Waterson said 2 - 3 months possibly. C. Pirrie asked if we could get a
copy of the bid specs from Great Falls so we have an idea of where to start. He
also asked Mr. Waterson to get us a copy of the ordinance for not parking bn the
same block for more than an hour, and any other suggestions of how problems were
solved elsewhere, to help us come up with a plan.
Bob Tuman brought up the construction people who leave their vehicles in front
of stores all day and get no tickets. Chief Clark stated that businessmen have
asked for permission for this because they need access to tools in their trucks,
etc. It has always been a curtsey, with no permits paid for, therefore no ticket-
ing. There was discussion of how to discourage continual offenders; pictures in
the newspaper, talking to business persons, stating that if they continue to violate the
parking rules, customers will be discouraged from continuing with them, etc.
Mr. Waterson stated that the private contractor works as a 'buffer' between
the parking commission and irate ticketed person. Colin Wills suggested that for
next meeting everyone come back with some lots in mind to purchase for parking.
C. Pirrie asked for APCOA to get back with list of suggestions, info, etc.