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07-14-87 Parking Comm Minutes4__ ti July 14, 1987 PARKING COMMISSION 4:00 PM Chairman Gordon Pirrie and Commission members Colin Wills, Bob Ivey and Gary NcCarthy were present. Dave Waterson, manager of American Parking Co. from Great Falls, Melvin Kinkade manager of the company's operation at Glacier Park International Airport attended; also, Police Chief Addison Clark, Nick Haren of the Chamber, Bob Tuman of Budget Tapes, Ross Plambeck of CDD and Roger Hopkins of the Daily Interlake. Chairman Pirrie opened the meeting and introduced the APCOA, Inc. manager Dave Waterson and manager of the company's operation at Glacier Park International Airport. He then asked them to give their presentation/recommendations for help- ing to solve our parking problems, which mainly concernthe employees and owners of businesses parking on the street. Mr. Waterson stated that he had most all the data he felt he needed to make suggestions, except for revenue figures. He also stated that they really did not have a presentation as such, would rather the commission tell them what they want and see if they would be available to respond to our needs. He said they would certainly do a more indebth study if need be. Chairman Pirrie then stated there is a $2 overtime parking fee for .lots and $5 on the streets, one metermaid, and that the commission pays for 2 & 1/3 people, one is a fulltime person in the police dept. that deals with tickets and the police chief who gets his brain picked very often because of parking tickets. C. Pirrie also stated thatthey had looked at the Salem Plan which was with computering of license plates and progress tickets, and they'd. considered doing that. There is • some talk about putting meters back on the street, which is just talk, and not really serious at this time, and he is personally not in favor of it himself. C. Pirrie asked Gary McCarthy about the First Interstate lot, if and where the stands would be located. Gary stated they haven't decided yet what they were going to do. He stated there is also the bank against the Eagles building as well as Norm's. Two in have stands for meters to go on, much more than that and there would be customer problems. C. Pirrie stated there had been some discussion on some type of enforcement program without meters; such as chalking tires after z hour, 1 hour, 2 hour and then let the parking authority or whatever they come up with enforce it, as something else to consider. So what the commission wants from APCOA, Inc, at this time is what we can do do solve our problems. He looked over the figures from 85/86 revenue but did not feel comfortable with them, so said he would do more research on them. He stated that the revenue is down on most lots but a couple are still at 100%. The last meeting there was discussion of reducing rates in the lots to get people off the streets and raising the fine on the street, but enforcing it is a problem. C. Pirrie then stated to Mr. Waterson and Mr. Kinkade that that is pretty much our parking situation and we would like them to come up with some sort of plan. We don't have alot of numbers at present for them, but possibly they could come up with some sort of number of people that it might take to solve the problem. He also stated that all of the commission members would be more then willing to help and asked if anyone else had anything to add. Colin Wills stated that since the inception the revenue has been afairly average figure throughout the years, at about $38,000, from meters, but not including fines, etc, that figure has slip- ped the last few years since paving main st., but still holding quite well. Parking Commission July 14, 1987 page 2 Mr. Wills also stated that the budget makes the payment for the lot south of the Eagles to the tune of $19,000 twice a year. He feels that possibly they should hire another part time person to patrol the approximately 1300 parking spaces, as one person just can't cover the entire area. Then possibly taking down the license numbers of the habitual offenders, bringing them back to this committee and calling and pleading with them to please stop. C. Pirrie asked Mr. Waterson how they handle this problem in Great Falls. He said that Great Falls has meters, and also an enormous amount of parking, however, the monthly price for parking in a lot is so reasonable that it would be more costly to park on the street and feed the meter. C. Pirrie asked where most of their revenue came from and Mr. Waterson said from the meters. He also gave a suggestion that after chalking a car, make it illegal to be parked within that entire block after an hour, they would then have to move the car to a dif- ferent block. This might require an ordinance change but would be one way of keeping them from moving backward or forward to another spot or wiping off the chalk mark. Colin Wills stated that when the meter ordinance was passed it was stated that 'it shall be illegal to park over 2 hours whether you pay the meter or not'. Mr. Waterson stated he had observed that it costs nothing to park for two hours on the street and therefore people would rather pay the ticket than pay the price for the lot. He stated that making the time longer in the lots and the cost less might help. C. Pirrie stated that we were back to the enforcement issue again. He asked if we have enough parking to warrant employing APCOA to do our part. Mr. Waterson stated yes. C. Pirrie asked if in the City of Great Falls they were completely out of the Police Dept with an office in city hall or what. Mr. Waterson explained that they have a three tiered operation; they provide the city with 160 hours of enforcement, maintainance and collection. That provides basicly four fulltime people, and they also lease out the spaces in the parking garage and maintain it. They have a cashier and do 3900 hours per year, 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, some additional time over holidays. They have 6 surfacelots, those in high use area are checked five times daily. Their office is in the parking garage. Parking tickets are written by them, but the director of finance does all of the collecting. The city commission granted them the authority as a private firm, through an ordinance to write tickets. The parking in Great Falls comes under the Director of Public Works, it was taken out of the Police Dept. years ago and Mr. Waterson coordinates all his actions with the Director of Public Works. In answer to Colin Wills question about out of county curtesy tickets, Mr. Waterson stated they give 2 hour curtesy citations, which say thank you for stopping in Great Falls. C. Pirrie discussed with Chief Clark and the other members with the figures for annual revenue from tickets, parking permits and fines/forfitures. They seemed exceptionally high, so they will rechecked before next meeting. He also explained that all the leased lots are on a 70/30 split. There are only four city owned lots, so something might have to be done to increase revenue from lots if they employ a private agency such as APCOA. The main concern is still enforce- ment in getting them off the streets. APCOA works on different types of contracts, and every town has such a different set of problems that the type of contract depends on each city's problems. Parking Commission July 14, 1987 page 3 Bob Ivey stated that he felt that if theywere going to hire a private agency to take care of our parking problems they're going to have to spend a good deal more money then they are presently. Mr. Waterson said they need to have some specifics, such as; how many hours a week we would want - 30/60/80 hours; would they be wanted to repair meters, replace poles, etc. C. Pirrie stated that the commission would like APCOA to come up with a list of questions that they could address, because they would have to go out to bid according to state law. Also any suggestions they may have as to what might work best for this city, and any other input they may have. Also how long a contract would be needed, and one we could desolve if it wasn't working for either party. Mr. Waterson said they like to go for 3 - 5 year contracts if at all possible. They are in a number of cities in Montana, different contracts, Great Falls is the only city-wide contract that they have at this time. There was discussion on the use of a 'boot', to which Mr. Waterson stated a private factor cannot use one, but a municipality can legally do so. He also stated that it appears that we have adaquate parking in the city just a problem with on street enforcement. C. Pirrie also stated that the commission has bond monies still available to purchase additional property, approximately $400,000 and a year and a half to use it. If a bigger and better use comes for the cur- rent lots, they could be sold and other properties acquired. • Gary McCarthy stated he agrees that the cost of ticket on the street be more or less and cost of parking in lots be more or less to maximize revenue to pay for private services. Mr. Waterson suggested making the lots $1 for all day and parking on the street for just one hour. C. Pirrie also stated that a few years ago a survey was done and there was a need for 1900 parking spots. Those numbers have changed somewhat, but the college has 800/1200 students that attend weekly and maybe that should be addressed seperately. He has made a proposal to buy some of the property owned by the college north of town, helping them get out of town then buy intown property for parking, either short term or long term basis, whatever the demand for the land would be. There was also discussion on public and commission feeling of having one hour parking. When asked how long it would take to get a program going if the commission decides to go with a private agency Mr. Waterson said 2 - 3 months possibly. C. Pirrie asked if we could get a copy of the bid specs from Great Falls so we have an idea of where to start. He also asked Mr. Waterson to get us a copy of the ordinance for not parking bn the same block for more than an hour, and any other suggestions of how problems were solved elsewhere, to help us come up with a plan. Bob Tuman brought up the construction people who leave their vehicles in front of stores all day and get no tickets. Chief Clark stated that businessmen have asked for permission for this because they need access to tools in their trucks, etc. It has always been a curtsey, with no permits paid for, therefore no ticket- ing. There was discussion of how to discourage continual offenders; pictures in the newspaper, talking to business persons, stating that if they continue to violate the parking rules, customers will be discouraged from continuing with them, etc. Mr. Waterson stated that the private contractor works as a 'buffer' between the parking commission and irate ticketed person. Colin Wills suggested that for next meeting everyone come back with some lots in mind to purchase for parking. C. Pirrie asked for APCOA to get back with list of suggestions, info, etc.