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10-06-88 Parks Comm MinutesCl PARKS COMMITTEE MEETING October 6, 1988 COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: COMMITTEE MEMBER ABSENT: OTHERS PRESENT: Noel Furlong Roger Hopkins John Gunnerson Jim Atkinson Glen Neier, City Attorney Mike Baker, Parks Director Mayor Ed Kennedy Dan Johns Weldon Plympton The meeting was called to order by Chairman Furlong at 4:20 P.M. Chairman Furlong presented the new draft copy of the Lakers Baseball Lease that he had received from Dan Johns. It was decided that Chairman Furlong would go through the changes in the Lease one by one and the Committee could say "Yea" or "Nay". C. Gunnerson asked why don't we go through the whole thing because he didn't know where the Committee stands on the entire Lease. Johns' new draft copy says for a term of 20 years. Johns stated they wanted more than 5 years because completing that field is at the expense of the Lakers and they thought the additional time was justified as the finances and improvements and completion of the field were consistent with what the Council was doing with the Golf Course. Johns stated there is also the termination language in there in case of default, so it's not 20 years without any recourse. He said we're talking about review twice a year, so he thought 20 years was not unreasonable. Furlong said he thought the Committee understood that. He stated that the Golf Course Lease, which is now signed, sealed and delivered has a 5 year review of terms and conditions. Gunnerson stated the Golf Course Lease is 20 year with every 5 years a review of terms and conditions. He asked if the Lakers would have a problem with that? Johns said he didn't have a problem with reviewing it every 5 years, he just didn't want to have to re -negotiate the entire lease. He said the Lakers were going to have to go for some financing because the figures they were being told presently for completing the grandstands, which they hope to get done because they are scheduled to host state tournament next year, is around $30,000. He said they were seeking what they could in the way of donations and contributions but people in businesses get hit up a lot for those types of things, so they're going to need some additonal financial help, and they'd like to go to the bank with some assurance that they've got more than 5 years to pay off a $30,000 loan. He said the idea behind the Lakers was not to be a money -making organization but to make enough money to provide a baseball program for high school athletes. • Furlong asked what they would consider as an 'alternative. Johns said a 5 year lease would give them the ability to renew, option it for two 5-year periods every 5 years. -1- Gunnerson said that was one of the big things with the Golf Course, . trying to obtain loans, and the banks are not going to do it today unless they know that you're going to be there for awhile. If you've got some security and are not in a situation where you can't be cancelled in 5 years and change hands, etc. Furlong said he had no problem with the concept of a renewable lease, but he had a real problem with the concept of a 20 year lease. He said things could change mightily in 20 years in Kalispell. Furlong went on to say that there would be essentially no income from this property for whatever the term of the lease. He said there isn't a year goes by that the members of the Lakers in labor and materials don't vastly contribute more than 1% of the income. Johns said he agreed with Furlong but since the Lakers were going to have to undertake completion of the project he didn't consider that as income but that the Lakers did contribute that much in time and materials each year. Furlong then moved on to Item No. 1: Use, Compliance with Laws, Signs. Furlong read in the third sentence "and other specific purposes approved by the Lakers" which conflicts with the sentence in No. 3 stating "shall be only with the mutual consent of the City and Lakers." Johns said the easiest way to fix that is to change "approved by the Lakers" to "approved by the parties". Item No. 2: Under Maintenance and Repairs the old lease said the • City would perform the following services: a) Fertilize, mow and maintain outfield... The new lease says a) Fertilize, mow, irrigate and maintain outfield... Furlong said he thought the intent there was that the fertilizing, mowing and irrigating would be at the expense of the City. Johns said the Lakers had proposed to pay for water that was used at the concession stands and that was flushed in the toilets. He said they didn't want to pay for water that was used to irrigate the sod. He said the City's able to turn on that water just as well as the Lakers and there was no control over what the water bill's going to be if we're not controlling the turns on the valve. lie said they were also being asked to develop the 2nd field down there which means seeding instead of sodding which is going to take a lot of water to get that grass growing, and they would like to have some leave from paying for the irrigation water that goes on that field. Hopkins said he agreed with that except that in the lease it states the Lakers have primary use of that field and it ties up that field for a particular time for a particular purpose and he thought it was properly the responsibility of the Lakers to cover the expense. Johns said this field was constructed with the purpose to replace old Griffin Field and the watering of that field was not paid for by the organizations. Hopkins said there was a major change now in that we are giving the Lakers a lease for the use of this brand new field for a particular period of time for a particular purpose. He said that was a significant enough change that it obligates the lessor to the costs. Johns said we'll pay for the water, you finish the field and • build the stands. Hopkins said maybe that's an obligation the City might have to consider. He said this field in his mind was conceived -2- originally as a multi -use field, such as soccer, football, use for • major events. He said there needs to be more flexibility in this lease to allow for other purposes. He said the soccer association would like to use the field. He said by this lease only the Lakers could say who could use the field at a certain time period. Johns asked how do we address the issue of soccer cleats and football cleats, if the outfield sod gets ripped up, how is it going to get repaired and who is going to repair it? Hopkins said all the agencies have an obligation for a certain fee for use of the field. He said the idea he's coming more and more around to is that the City should retain management of the field. Gunnerson said the City was doing all the maintenance and we should make the decision as to who can play on the field. Johns said he didn't see where the City was paying for everything, what about the grandstands? Gunnerson asked what assurance does the City have that whoever the Lakers would permit on the field are going to be compatible to maintaining it as a quality baseball field? Johns asked how do we know that if the City's in control of it and we put $30,000 into it this year that next year it's not going to be a piece of junk? Hopkins stated that the City Council would advise Mike Baker to see to it that the field is available as a baseball field on those occasions when there are no other things going on or according to your schedule and that's the City's obligation. Gunnerson said if we find out that a soccer team had played there and tore up the field then it's over, they don't play there anymore. Johns said Mike Baker •is doing a fine job maintaining the field, that 1988 was the first year he hadn't had to call off a baseball game because there was too much water on the field. Furlong said that Mike Baker and the Parks Crew have 19 other pieces of property plus the airport to maintain and everything should be maintained on a rotation basis, but what's going to happen when that rotation doesn't fit in the Lakers schedule, does he drop whatever he's doing and rush out and do that? Baker said that in the spring of the year one of the priorities is to get the ball fields in order. So far they haven't had their priorities overlap yet. They may have an emergency or a problem arise in some other area which will be addressed on a fire drill basis. Hopkins brought up the idea of a limited lease for a certain period of months a year. Baker said this was the first year that the Parks Dept. is being charged for water usage and that had not been budgeted for and is a problem. As long as there's a competent parks director or manager, there never will be a detrimental use on that field. He said maintaining the turf would be a high priority in keeping the baseball field a prime facility. Item 3. No changes. Item 4. Furlong suggested a potential compromise regarding the issue • of pristine use of the baseball field. What if we maintain the current baseball field as. a baseball complex or any other compatible use, and that's by mutual consent, and develop the 2nd field as a multiple use complex to include 2 soccer fields for multiple use. He -3- drew a diagram showing his plans. He said the other use of the 2nd field could be planned around a secondary baseball field. Johns said they just wanted to be sure that Griffin Field was used for compatible use that would not cause destruction of a $200,000 investment. He said as he didn't have any problem with the multi -use, it would increase greatly the capacity of having two baseball games going at the same time. There was some discussion about having a baseball mound on a soccer field. Furlong said he thought soccer was played before or after the baseball season. Baker said the possibility of bringing soccer in there would benefit the people very well because of the fact that there's 800 participants and the revenue from that could be put into developing combined soccer and baseball field. Furlong went on to say that we could require that tennis shoes only be allowed on the field. Johns said his only concern was maintaining the quality of the field. There was further discussion on soccer becoming a high school sport and developing more fields for that. It was agreed that there was the possibility of some kind of a compromise on the additional development of the 2nd field and make it an all -complex field. Johns said the Lakers would be willing to participate in that. Item No. 5: Furlong said there was an addition of "discharged into the City's treatment facility". Personal Property: There was some discussion on this but no changes were made. • Insurance: Furlong asked what if the Lakers allowed others to use the facility at times other than the baseball season, what does your liability do then? Johns said what they would do is require them to have their own insurance. No. 8: Default and Termination: Furlong said the big change was the proviso limiting us in enforcing cancellation of the lease. Number one is the change from 30 days in the original lease to 60 days with the proviso that, regardless, we couldn't do it during the calendar year of a baseball season. Johns said his big concern there was having the rug pulled out from under them when they have their baseball season all scheduled. If we've got a problem let's wait till the season is over. Furlong said he would like to propose to the committee that we have the Mayor direct Mike Baker, with the assistance of our City Attorney, sit down with Dan Johns and give them our input and attempt to hammer out an agreement that meets our concerns about these issues, then come back with a negotiated agreement. Furlong said this committee is honor bound to present it to the Council with this committee's recommendation for adoption. Gunnerson said he was in favor of this and he didn't think it was too tough to come up with a compromise. • Hopkins asked if this committee was empowering this negotiating team, is this committee bound when it comes back from the negotiating team, and when it goes to the Council floor it can be amended in any way, shape or form? Furlong said yes, there was no way out of that. -4- Hopkins said he thought this was an admirable suggestion. Johns said • he had no problem with that at all, he just wanted to feel comfortable that whatever we reach agreement upon doesn't come back to go through this process and the same disagreements. Neier said at least today we have it on paper, he could definitely see places where we could straighten it out. Baker said he would agree with Glen, we have been given the guidelines and wishes of the committee and his interest is to bring something back that the committee is in favor of and that's what he would negotiate for with the interest of the City. Johns said everybody's objective was to come up with something that is an asset to the City. There was further discussion on the merits of the new baseball field. Johns then left the meeting at 5:30 P.M. MOTION: Roger Hopkins moved that the Parks Committee create a nego- tiation committee and have the Mayor direct Mike Baker and Glen Neier to negotiate with Dan Johns and come back with an agreement to present to the Council. Gunnerson seconded and it passed unanimously. • • -5- NEGOTIATION STRATEGY • Furlong made a motion that we go for a 5 year lease with three consecutive 5-year renewals. Furlong stated he was willing to give the Lakers the 1% of gross revenue and Laker ticket concession stand, which means no income, but he is not willing to give them water, or fertilizer or city service free and clear. The Mayor asked if this meant the one field. Furlong said no, it was the whole complex. He said that was something that should be in the negotiations, they should pay for that water, etc. during season times. If they are using the other field they should pay, if we're both using it, the cost should be split. Baker said currently there is no irrigation on the other field. It was decided to negotiate that item. Furlong said if they wanted to put their own fertilizer on the field he had no problem with that, also the mowing. Gunnerson stated he disagreed with that, the point of fertilizing was not just for their period of time, it was for the benefit of the entire period of time. He said as far as mowing the outfield he didn't think there was any problem, but as far as mowing the infield, he said we should put in that they maintain the infield and the City maintains the outfield area and fertilization and mowing of the outfield area, and they should pay for the irrigation during the time they utilize it. There was some discussion of the cost of fertilizer and what other treatments had been put on the grass. Baker stated he felt they should fertilize twice a year. He said if it wasn't for the baseball field it wouldn't have been developed to • the point it is right now, we would have put the money in other areas. Roger Hopkins said he wanted it clarified, does irrigate mean that the Parks Dept. is simply going out and watering the field, or is the Parks Dept. going out and watering the field and paying the bill? He said if this means that the City is responsible for the bill, he does not agree with that. Gunnerson said that the if the City is irrigating, the Lakers should be responsible for the bill during the time that they utilize that field. Furlong asked what sense it made for the City to put expensive fertilizer on the field when the Lakers could do it almost for free? Baker said if we put the responsibility in the hands of the Lakers, they're going to be ruled by their checkbook and might have to cut back on maintenance. Mayor Kennedy said he would rather keep it all in Mike's hands, no matter who pays for it, to be sure it's done right. It was decided to add "irrigation" to No. 5, Utilities. It was noted that Item #1 conflicted with Item #3, the word "Lakers" should be changed to "parties". Parties are designated in the first paragraph. Item #3, Primary Use. Furlong stated that at in 20 years it's not unfeasible that a pro team could come here and that could mean major bucks for the City. Hopkins asked if that could be an item allowable for re -opening the Lease, if some minor league expressed interest in Kalispell. Furlong said only every five years, if they want us to • stick to it. Gunnerson said he agreed with the Mayor that there should be wording in there to prevent that. Hopkins stated he had another concern --he said the Lakers had said • all along they wanted to get some kind of compensation for the investment they have in bringing the field up to par. He said he felt that there should be some kind of formula in here that they should be compensated only for the amount that they are indebted for completing the field, and perhaps after that according to the annual maintenance. Furlong said he liked that concept but he didn't think it would work for the reason that we give them 1% less labor and materials and you take 50 people down there working all day and then you compute that into an 8 hour day at the standing rate and you never will get that kind of money. Gunnerson said all you're doing in something like that, you've got somebody there that doesn't have any money anyway, then they're sitting there trying to develop a field along with the City and all we're doing is trying to put the noose a little bit tighter and raise them 3 inches off the ground. Hopkins said up until the point they become profitable. Gunnerson said let them become profitable. The Mayor said then we could re -negotiate. Gunnerson said it's not going to be in 5 years. Furlong said he had another concern, he said if he was a stubborn Laker, and somebody wanted to use that field and he didn't think it was a compatible use, he would just make the fee so exorbitant that they wouldn't use it. He said he thought the City had to have some insight, some voice, in what fees are going to be charged. He thought the fee should be reasonable, but the Lakers could make the fee so high that it wouldn't be used. He said maybe Mike and the Lakers could establish use fees or something of that nature. Baker said he wasn't really so sure that the City owes the Lakers any • concessions because we already provided them a $200,000 facility and we haven't sold Griffin Field yet. He said there's no guarantee what the old field will go for. He said he had some problems with the soccer people paying the Laker people and then the money stopping there and not the best interest of the field taking place. Furlong stated he had a compromise suggestion for alternate uses: Alternate uses will be coordinated internally by Parks Director and the Lakers and then you can build in a fee schedule. He said that the kids in this town playing soccer deserved the same kind of consideration as the Lakers. He thought a fee would take care of the sundry items, such as a guard, that somebody could go down there and make sure that there is no destruction to the property, but to charge them a fee we should have some kind of handle on it. The Mayor asked if we were talking about charging fees for the second field? Furlong said yes. The Mayor said maybe we should not include that second field. Furlong said if you wrote it so we have input into what the fee is, and coordinate the use, 1 think we are protected. Baker said fees would have to be approved just like the swimming pool and golf course fees. Everyone agreed with that. Baker stated that the main field now has padlocks on the gates. He said he was a firm believer that it's a City park and he felt that for unorganized play that City park should be open. He said if someone was going to vandalize it they would find a way to get in. • He said he was concerned about the locking up of the facility. -7- Gunnerson said he disagreed, he was concerned that if it was open it welcomed more vandalism. Furlong agreed with Gunnerson, he said we have an unenclosed field right now. Furlong said he thought there ought to be two keys for the Lakers and the City, and if somebody wants to use that park, they check out a key and then we'll have a record of who's using it. He said we put an awful lot of money into that baseball field to allow somebody with a bicycle or motorcycle to go in there. He said he would rather have it locked at least until we get the whole thing developed. Hopkins said he agreed with Mike, it's a City park and it should be open. He questioned the legality of locking it. Furlong said we padlocked the golf course, you can't get on it without consent, he wasn't criticizing that, he was only criticizing that we can't get consent. He thought we had a right to lock the field. Baker said the golf course was a specialized use, what are you going to play on a golf course besides golf? He said what he was talking about is the open green space that's meant for athletic turf, for outdoor sports and activities. That's conducive to other play besides just baseball. Gunnerson said he agreed with Mike, if the City was the one that was going to go in there and put those bleachers in, and the toilets and facilities... Baker said they put those dugouts in which was $15,000. Furlong said primarily it was built for baseball, actually it's multi -purpose and there should be a fence around the whole perimeter, and he thought for right now it should be locked to protect our investment: Baker said maybe we could look at this again after we get the whole thing finished. • item A. Furlong said this was where he proposed the multi -use concept. He said he thought for what the Lakers were getting on the first field, they are obligated to develop the 2nd field, with our help or the soccer association's help. He said they have to be aware that they are going to share a major portion in the development of that 2nd field. Furlong said for the record he disagrees with our paying for all the water. Hopkins said he thought we should go back to the original language. Noel read the original language, which reads :"The City shall provide electricity, water and sewage facilities to the leased property. The Lakers shall pay for the cost of water, sewage facilities, garbage collecting, and electricity usage. It was only after they got the bill they tried to get out of it. Furlong said it was his feeling that they should pay for this. Baker asked if there was going to be a trade-off, such as the Parks Dept. mowing for the Water Dept., did he see us going to strictly an irrigation policy, the only reason we're paying for the water is because the meter is in there. Is there ever going to be free water again for the City itself, or is this the trend that you see going through? Furlong said there's no free water and there's money expended for that water. Furlong said what he felt should be done is the staff ought to be directed to come up with one policy, so we don't fight with every policy that we have. Baker said we are doing something different in every area, so we have to work towards ff:Z consistence. Furlong said sometimes its nothing more than a paper • transfer, but it still has to be accounted for. Personal property: Furlong said Dan Johns had everything listed in there including foodstuffs, grandstand, fencing, bases, including pegs. He said he was suggesting if worse came to worse, if the lease was violated or if they gave it up, the potential of paying for those major improvements, that even if the City had to take over the grandstand, it's nonsense for that grandstand to be torn out and moved, and then we have to turn around and build another one. Hopkins said the grandstands were part of the facility and did not belong to the Lakers because they're getting all these fees for numerous uses out there and ostensibly this offsets the cost of building the grandstands. He thought the grandstands should be struck as personal property. Baker said the fences should be struck also. Insurance: Furlong said the City has general liability insurance and fire insurance, and the Lakers carry general liability for the portion of the year that they use it, and if anybody else uses it they have to have liability. Gunnerson said if any other entity uses this facility they should have proper insurance. Baker said we should put in there that if anyone else uses it they have to supply a waiver of insurance upon any organized activity leasing the facility. Hopkins said that the fact that they are leasing this facility for year around use, they could get some needs for subletting this facility at times when they're not using it, yet they're only paying liability insurance at the times they are using it, and still getting fees from other groups and requiring that they get their own liability insurance. Furlong said that was standard practice. Hopkins asked if they happen to sublet the field during the time of the Lakers regular season, does the Lakers insurance cover that other guy? Baker said no, they have their own insurance. Any organized activity will have their own insurance and they will be responsible to provide proof of it. Item #8. Default and termination. Furlong said if the problem got serious enough that we felt compelled to initiate a default, then he didn't think the continuation of the season should stand in the way. Hopkins said he still had a problem with a year-round full time annual lease with the facility. He said he'd rather see the City have total control and give them the use arrangement or he would rather see a lease for the time they actually have their season. Gunnerson said the problem with that is the City will be rebuilding the bleachers. Hopkins said he didn't see any difference between the Flathead Jazz Organization building an $85,000 amphitheater and the Lakers building bleachers for a facility we just spent $200,000 on. Furlong agreed but said the City does not have the manpower, personnel or money for total control. Hopkins said what the Lakers need to remember is that they wouldn't have a field now if it wasn't for the positive efforts of the City. • Meeting adjourned at 6:10 P.M. Shirley Hughes, Recording Secretary IWI