04-26-88 Parks Comm MinutesPARKS/PUBLIC LANDS/ANNEXATION/ZONING/AIRPORT
0 - MEETING OF 26 APRIL 1988
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairwoman Marla Robinson
Vice -Chairman Noel Furlong
_ Jim Atkinson
John Gunnerson
OTHERS PRESENT: Craig Kerzman, Acting Building
Official
The meeting was called to order by Chairwoman Robinson at 4:02 p.m. with all
council members present.
Agenda Item No.l - Preliminary Proposal and Discussion of KGA/Lawrence Park Plan:
Lee Carothers made his presentation of the "Preliminary Proposal" of the Kalispell
Golf Association and Lawrence Park Plan. He stated essentially they wanted to
make this presentation without the presence of the KGA and Friends of Lawrence
Park, but since they are here in attendance he would go ahead with it.
He noted for many years the Friends of Lawrence Park have been attempting to
• expand their park and to do some things. Over the past couple of years the KGA
has talked about expanding their facilities. The KGA came to the Chamber in
November of 1987 to ask if the Chamber would endorse their proposal to expand
the golf course. The Chamber said no because of being aware of what the Friends
of Lawrence Park were wishing to do with their proposal, and said the Chamber
would be willing to provide a forum to bring the two parties together and see
if both plans could become a reality. The last five months both organizations
have been represented in meetings, with Bruce Lutz, landscape architect putting
their ideas on paper. The Chamber is not negotiating on behalf of the City in
any way shape or form. The Mayor and Council are aware of what they are doing.
The people who have represented the Chamber in these meetings have been Lee
Carothers, Dan Black and Nick Herron. The Friends of Lawrence Park have been
represented by Dave Downey. Mike Burr has represented the KGA. Noel Furlong
has been there on behalf of the Parks Committee. Mike Baker has represented
the City.
Bruce Lutz and Mike Baker, Director of Parks are taking these ideas and are try-
ing to make them fit onto the land that is available.
Mr. Carothers asked Roger Hopkins not to put this in the newspaper as they have
in the past. This caused tempers to flare and this project may not become a
reality if this proposal is misrepresented in the newspaper. Roger Hopkins
stated that he did not know what he was going to do.
The meetings will be held with Friends of Lawrence Park and the Kalispell
Is people
Association to ask their opinions. They will then meet with more
people from each group and discuss it again, and bring this before the
City Council.
Bruce Lutz wanted it noted that this is in the "Concept Only" stage.
Mr. Lutz put an overview of Lawrence Park on the conference table and work-
ed from a wall chart for his presentation. Boundaries were discussed, which
he noted were not firm, all is up for change and discussion. The uses for
the park areas were i.e., tables, grates, trails, walking and jogging, handi-
capped, restrooms, multi -use field, tennis courts (with the Tennis Associa-
tion being accommodated?), observation areas over Kalispell and the park,
volleyball courts, horseshoe pits, wetland areas, bicycle trails, playground
and golf (par 3 or championship holes), paving, reclaiming, filling. All of
this to be accomplished hopefully, through the years of 1988 to 1991.
Lee Carothers interjected they were hoping for quite a bit of donated labor
and materials to keep the City cost down. There would also be the relocation
of the KGA practice range next to the club house down into (using map) this area.
This would serve as a type of transition area between potential park uses and
golf course uses.
Bruce Lutz stated there is a City -owned piece of property that connects with
Whitefish Stage and has some potential in bridging the river and accessing
for that entire neighborhood. Another neighborhood use that is a possibility, if
in fact both parties stay in this as players; one of the things the KGA has
offered as an option is through Gary Wilken and Merritt Warden, the Wilken pro-
perty, off of Whitefish Stage and has the potential for both vehicular and
pedestrian access into the park; and a lot of area for use that is adjacent
to - is one of the only open water areas in the park. Another area that is
a possibility is on California Street with what appears to be a stucco build-
ing on it. It opens up neighborhoods into the park which would be a total of
3 areas, if these are combined.
Lee Carothers wanted the committee to keep in mind that this is not a plan but
conceptual ideas that came from a series of meetings between the KGA and the
Friends of Lawrence Park. There is no buy -in to this by either party.
Discussion followed regarding preserving the wildlife and the treed area on
the map. Lee Carothers stated if this is accomplished and completed, it will
be the largest golf course in the State of Montana and will be one of the most
outstanding park areas in the entire state. It is essentially surrounded by
the City. It will be a community asset.
The committee suggested the meetings continue and then bring back a plan to
the Parks Committee which in turn will be presented to the City Coundil. The
Parks Committee commended KGA, the Friends of Lawrence Park and the Chamber for
their work.
The Chamber thanked the committee for listening and their encouragement.
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Agenda Item No.2 - Pee Wee Baseball Complex:
• Dan Johns and George Haegle were representing the complex. Dan Johns said
they came before the committee not to ask for money, but to ask for any ideas
on combining into one large complex or closer, more convenient play areas.
He noted they are able to do a fund raising project and were not asking for
money.
He said field maintenance has deteriorated over the years. The Pee Wee
fields of which there are 7, are spread from Woodland Park to Frye Field to
next to the sewer plant. We spend all day with someone running from field -to -
field to unload a pickup, dragging the field, striping it, loading the pickup
and on to the next field. They pay about $1,200. per year just to get the
striping done right. In the Babe Ruth's instance, they have the field near
Lions Park and the one at the Conrad Complex -which I guess is in threat of
loss due to softball at some point in time.
They have explored the idea of trying to build a complex in another area.
The Pee Wee Baseball Association has over 400 youngsters this year. They
are over -loaded and out of space growth -wise.
Dan Johns approached the Mayor last fall with the possibility of selling
to these assocations the 40 acre piece which is City -owned on Cemetary Road
across from Parks and Recreation. He stated for the new council members,
this land was purchased almost 10 years ago with the idea for use of injec-
tion of sludge for the watewater treatment plant. It was purchased from
• Siderius at $4,000./acre, EPA paid $3,000, 75% grant. Dan Johns spoke with
Scott Anderson, EPA, Helena to see what EPA's stand would be on the City
selling the land. He said the EPA would approve a sale as long as they
received 75% of the proceeds back; it would not have to be sold for $4,000./
acre, but they do need 75% back. It was presented to the Sewer and Water
Department and Andy Hyde wanted to keep the land for possible sludge in-
jection in the future. They are not able to consider this land and are
now back to locating some other land, or come up with a better idea to
reorganize.
The Pee Wee has one field south of the Armory and softball has four. In the
past the City has talked about that property as prime commercial. ground and
could be better used than for ball fields. They have considered expanding
Lions Park where they have a Babe Ruth Field and we have a Pee Wee field.
Woodland Field has been a hazard to play for quite a few years. They have
had two broken noses on that field in the last year, it is dangerous.
Peterson Field was discussed and it is doubtful each year which field is
going to be there.
Dan Johns said that soccer wants to go in together with them as they are in
jeopardy of losing the field behind the Evergreen School. Dan Johns has
approached private land owners but it is difficult to justify putting base-
ball fields on $4000. to $5000/acreage.
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Dan Johns stated he would like room for 12 fields, 3 cloverleafts. They
• are running too large of teams for individual attention. Pee Wee needs
a minimum of 15 acres for 12 fields. That allows for parking, concession
stand and restrooms. Pee Wee needs an acre with a 200 foot from home plate
to a fence, and a grandstand.
The Old Kalispell Dump on Willow Glen Drive was brought up, and mentioned
it was a mess at this time. South Meadows area was discussed. The sewer site
was mentioned and Dan Johns own children will not go there to practice.
The 40 acre site was brought up by Dan Johns but they still have concern
with children on bicycles.
Parks Director Mike Baker said he would like to support Dan Johns efforts
because there is not a quality ballfield in this town to service Pee Wees,
Babe Ruth at this time. (There is one at Griffin Field.) He said the only
problem with the 40 acres is that it is quite a way out of town and children
cannot bike there crossing major highways.
Councilman Saverud asked if there had been any conversation with any of the
O'Neil family about the forest products property? Dan Johns said the law suit
had been settled and it was divided up. He had spoken with Larry O'Neil about
some property out Foys Lake Road as you start on Whalebone and it was 16 acres
at $4,000/acre.
Mike Baker stated the Babe Ruth problem needs to be addressed. They are
possibly losing one of their fields to the County who wants to make the County
Complex totally softball. They are currently with two fields and 8 teams,
• and again their practice schedules are maxed out.
George Haegle said their situation is basically the same as the Pee Wees pro-
blem with practice, too large a team, etc. The two fields are in jeopardy if
expansion is done by anyone. At a meeting of the County Parks and Recreation
when they assessed them a use fee, they told them they would be glad to see
us gone because they could get more money from softball.
Councilman Furlong suggested that Dan Johns and George Haegle work with
Mike Baker on some land assemblance. He mentioned the land south of the Brown
Apartments on Airport Road, 2J acres, he thought assessed at $50,000 to $70,000.
He did not feel they would find 40 acres with what the City has at present.
Mike Baker noted in other cities they have planned for this using neighborhood
complexes of 3 to 4 fields that are spread all over town, and this may be what
Pee Wee will have to look at.
John Gunnerson stated the 40 acres should be looked at in terms of safety of
the children with that being the first priority. He felt the entire project
should not be put on Mike Baker, he can assist them and work with them. When
the proposal is developed then come back before the committee. He noted he
is in favor of this project and supports it wholeheartedly. He also agreed
there is a lot of land available which is City -owned and felt they may not
be able to locate all in one area as they wish.
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Agenda
Item No.3
- Set Regular Meeting Schedule:
IsIt
was
decided by
the committee members to hold a regular meeting twice a month
on the
second and
fourth Tuesday of the month, and if one is not needed then
it will
be cancelled. These meetings are to be held at the regular time 4:00 p.m.
Agenda Item No.4 - Park Osage_ Fees -Recommendation to City Council:
Chairwoman Robinson stated this meeting is not to set the fees, but to recommend
to the council to set a policy for park usage fees.
Mike Baker discussed the draft with committee members for input. He has some
input from department heads and will submit a final draft to the committee soon.
Chairwoman Robinson said she felt this should go before the council to set the
policy. As far as fees, charging, park policy are up to Mike Baker as it is
administrative.
John Gunnerson asked for Mike's recommendations and as far as the council goes,
will abide by Mike's recommendations.
Noel Furlong asked Mike Baker the difference on the draft of private and non-
profit. Mike said, private would incorporate i.e. weddings, family reunions.
Non-profit would be Campfire girls. There are some areas of concern for groups
such as charities, etc. It will be necessary to establish a category for no
fee.
• Mike stated he attended a recent conference in Coeur d' Alene and one of the
things mentioned by the man in charge of all parks and recreation from Los
Angeles, California - County was the cities should charge. (Los Angeles Parks
takes in approximately 60 communites, equally something in the area of 8 or 9
million people with $60 million parks and recreation budget). He noted these
people are making money off of your facility and you are having to pay the upkeep
costs for the sites. If you have to go in and clean up after them, pay for
water for recreational purposes, restroom, garbage disposal, this is a cost out
of your budget. He said you can have a separate cost for a non-profit or charity
organization, but you still need to re -coup those charges to be able to come
out on your budget and upkeep.
•
Mike Baker said he is not in real favor of it, but is not against charging to
re -coup costs. He felt a minimum charge of under 50 people for $15.00 is not
an excessive charge. Over 100 people there will be a detrimental impact to the
park site, this is up to $35.00. The fees are flexible, but he felt the groups
really should be charged, the school picnics, etc. There is not a place in the
valley that does not charge for that - Lone Pine, the County Parks are examples.
The softballers are being charged and the Babe Ruths are being charged and run
off their fields. The time has come that you pay your way. There is a trend
across the country to charge for recreational uses.
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A group would constitute 20 people and over. This is not only to be consid-
ered a group charge, it is a reservation fee to make certain the site is
reserved. Any group under 20 can use the site but they are not guaranteed
a reservation. In Billings there are signs in the gazebo and pavillions
which state, "Upon given the receipt from the Parks Department, any group
must vacate this site and give precedence over the reservation holder."
The reservations have always been on a first come basis so the fee will not
affect this one way or the other.
Mike Baker stated Glacier Park raised its fees last year, and it also had
more people visiting the park even though the fees had been raised.
Chairwoman Robinson said the committee decides whether it is in the best
interest of the majority of the public to schedule activities of group size
in Woodland Park so that the city taxpayers are not paying for the cleanup
of the few people wo do use it and do not have as much respect for the
park. Charging the people will ensure its upkeep and be more conducive
to gaining some respect for the park.
Motion: Jim Atkinson made a motion to recommend to the city council a
policy of charging for certain reserved groups and activities
in the city parks. John Gunnerson seconded the motion. Roll
call vote was unanimously in favor.
Agenda No.$ - Park Shop Relocation:
• Mike Baker stated he is still in the process of looking for a space for the
Parks Department and negotiating with the Public Works Director. He will
get back to the committee when he has more information.
New Business:
Chairwoman Robinson reminded the committee that April 29th is the Arbor Day
celebration. Mike Baker said the City of Kalispell was recently named as
Street Tree City U.S.A. That presentation will be on the 29th of April by
the Division of State Forestry Administrator from Missoula. The Mayor will
be presented with a flag and a plaque. There will be signs at the entrance
to Kalispell. There is also a program on Saturday with a E.McCulloch who
is from Seattle and is opening a tree business in the valley. He is present-
ing a free seminar for anyone in tree pruning and shrubbery. If no one shows
up for this seminar he has then volunteered to do our trees in Depot Park,
the ones that did not get pruned this last year at no charge to the City.
It is a service he does every year for Arbor Day. Mike Baker stated he is
a very talented person when it comes to tree maintenance and management,
and up to date on the latest practices.
Chairwoman Robinson read a memo from Glen Neier to the committee stating his
opinion: "Based upon the discussion with individuals whom I believe are in-
formed, I am of the opinion that the imposition of a percentage of gross
revenue rental fee on the Kalispell Golf Association by the City would not
have an adverse impact on the Association's tax exempt status."
pending Agenda Items No.2 - Kalispell Golf Association Lease:
• A short discussion followed and it was noted by John Gunnerson the KGA
has not had an opportunity for discussion as yet with the council members
regarding their lease.
Motion: John Gunnerson made a motion to establish a committee body to
review with the Mayor and 2 KGA members and 2 Council Members
(one council member from the Parks Committee) to establish an
adaptable lease agreement compatible for both parties. This
information will be brought back to the Parks Committee for
action and subsequent presentation to the City Council to
for a vote.
Roll call vote was unanimously in favor with one of the present
KGA members agreeing to this motion.
Pending Agenda Item No.4 - Airport Lease:
Chairwoman Robinson stated she has not seen the Airport lease as yet but
the Mayor said he would get her a copy.
Pending Agenda Item No.3 - Legion Baseball Lease:
The restrooms were noted to be in order now at Lions Park and are scheduled
to open May 1st for playing. Lease has passed the City Council.
• Pending Agenda Item No.5 - Annexation of "Islands" in the City:
Discussion by committee followed. Jim Atkinson noted it is not necessary
to succeed from the City Fire District in order to be annexed if they are
an island.
It was decided by the committee to give this to Glen Neier, City Attorney
for a.history and his opinion.
Chairwoman Robinson adjourned the meeting at 5:45 p.m.
Respectfully Submitted,
N ncy Cl g
Recordi Secretary
Marla Robinson
Chairwoman
nc
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