09-04-79i
9-4-79`
PUBLIC HEARING:
"The Mall"
(Developers Diversifi
Buffalo Hill
Compr. Plan
Change denied.
A special public hearing was held Tuesday, September 4, 1979 by
the Kalispell City -County Planning Board in the large lecture
room of the Flathead High School.
Members Present:
Others Present:
Jim Thompson
(4) Staff Representatives
John Kain
Steve Petrini
Ray Lybeck
Jim Mohn
Dale Haarr
Gary Hill
Ann Smith
Elsie Eickhorst
Fran 011endike
Dorothy.Garvin
Approx. 95 Guests
Wm. J. Lupton
Robt. LeDuc
President Lupton called the Board to order at 7:32 p.m.
President Lupton stated that the purpose of this public hearing
i,�as to consider a change in the Buffalo Hill Area, which was brought
about by a request from Developers Diversified to construct a
shopping center in that area. The procedure would be to consider
a change in the adopted 1974 Comprehensive Plan, and then forward
that recommendation.to the City,Council and the Board of County
Commissioners. After the change in the Plan the next step would
be annexation to the City of Kalispell with the appropriate zoning
going hand -in hand. Welcomed guests and introduced the Board
and Steve Petrini, the Planning Director.
President.Lupton explained the format,for presentation, and that
being a presentation by the Staff, followed by questions from
the Board, then presentation from the proponents of the proposal,
followed by questions and then followed by questions by the audience
and Board.
President Lupton requested that the hearing be kept concise and
orderly and that remarks be kept brief and not too redundant.
He requested that Steve Petrini make the presentation regarding
the summary of the last month's work.
Steve Petrini explained that as mentioned that Developer's
Diversified made a request to the City and County that whatever
was•necessary procedure.,needed to be initiated to change the
Kalispell Comprehensive Area Plan to allow for a proposed "Mall"
Complex in area known as Buffalo Hill, that those steps be taken
by both the City and/or County. The request was Developer's
Diversified and what they were asking for was a change in the
Buffalo Hills Area from Urban and High Density Urban Residential•
densities to Commercial in order to accommodate the regional
shopping Mall.
Steve explained as briefly as possible the proposal for the Mall
itself, -and agency comments and.then into some recommendations.
This particular site proposed plan, Hwy 93 N of Kalispell, entrance
to Northridge or Northridge Dr., Sunnyview Lane and Hospital on
south, little furthe.r.north is the.Rec. Center, 400' N is Parkview
Terr., so have Northridge Terr. to the west, Parkview Terr. to
the north, undeveloped to east and undeveloped corner at Sunnyview
and 93, the Rec. Center and Hospital to the south. Meridian Rd.
.intersects up from the bottom.
The first Phase would accommodate 269,000 sq.ft. of floor space, 01
and a proposed second Phase of 652 thousand square feet, so the
complex would have about 369,000 sq. ft. in retail floor space.
There is also a proposal for the south end of the property where
they propose what they call a "strip center", which would be for
three additional stores, a food, drug, another retail store of
some nature, which would add another 34,000 sq. ft. So the total
amounts to 369,000 sq. ft. Parking which has been provided as
shown on the site would lend itself to both first and second phases
and accommodates 1698 cars which is ample parking for the facility
itself. The last parking proposed in green, runs farther north
than indicated and all green areas are proposed for some landscaping
and trees and visual evergreen buffer on the north side and major
area is grass. The large grassed area to rear initially will
be there but as the second phase develops it will no longer be
there as the parking expands into it. Green areas will be
landscaped in one form or another. As the second Phase develops
the area will no longer exist. The indications are that the area
will be served as a high level district of the Kalispell Water
system and served by existing sanitary sewer which currently serves
the Northridge Drive and as far as storm sewer is concerned they
propose an onsite collection system and an onsite retaining pond
which discharge into the Stillwater River via the natural drainage
ways.as they go from this site to the road east on Grandview Lane
and then down to the drainage ways.
The access to the site is primarily from four directions, the 0
proposed signalized intersection is Meridian and 93, and just
opposite that would be an entrance,and exit and across from North -
woods Drive is another proposed entrance and exit and at the north
end of the site there is one additional entrance and exit and
and off Sunnyview Lane approximately 300' they also propose another
entrance and exit. There are four entrances and exits to the
site itself, three off US 93 and 1 off Sunnyview Lane. We did
submit in evaluating the project we developed a questionaire that
dealt with as many aspects as we could anticipate as far as impacts
might be anticipated or that might result from this type of develop-
ment and we distributed the questionaires to a variety of agencies,
public and private in order that maybe we could gain and benefit
from the expertise those individuals might have in their own
particular fields and this is a brief resume of the information
we received back from those agencies which reviewed the Mall
proposal.
As far as fire protection is concerned it has to be built to
national state fire"codes and fire code indicates it must be
equipped with sprinkler "system and therefore these two factors
make the impact of the center in this particular location less
severe. Security problem systems should be installed within all
the buildings and in this particular -project according to the
police department. These measures will reduce the impact in
providing police protection. As far as drainage is concerned 0
we received four comments. One of the comments received had two
alternatives, that the runoff and snow melt into a gravel pit
which is to the southeast of this particular site, use to be old
county gravel pit,.`it should.per.colate rapidly with little saturatio
to surface soils. Ground water contamination may still be a problem
to wells in the immediate area. Rerouting water may dry up or
limit other wells that are dependent on recharge from the develop—
ment site itself and the elements that it would take to put this
into effect would be to line the retention pond to prevent seepage
fight the `runoff to the gravel pit, easements for the pipeline
and easements for purchase of the gravel pit. Second alternative
would be to drain all the runoff to the Stillwater River. The
road ditch needs reshaping, stabilizing to carry 50 cubic feet
per second at nonerodible velocities. Erosion rock structure
and pipe to slough is needed at -natural drainage way to prevent
erosion and steep sandy banks. This alternative may limit ground
water recharge as well as.contamination. It will also put
contaminated runoff into the river without filtration. The elements
are to reshape and rededicate the road ditch, drop structure and
revegetate the ditch and whatever necessary.
Other comments relating to runoff, snow pile to melt in the drains
and not in the overbanks because the overbanks at least in the
particular area in the back are on a 50% slope. If the now is
pushed off the side itself, the banks will have a tremendously
amount of erodibility on thoseoverbanks. Runoff collection piped
to the gravel pit, runoff from the embankments to the gravel pit.
Erosion control during and after construction
One other comment as it related to the drainage facilities.
Calculation of the storm water retension area should be based
upon 10 or 20 years storm rather than 50 year rainfall, which
tells you almost nothing. There is a question as to whether
discharge should be allowed on the structure at all. If any
discharge`is to be allowed, the retension structure should provide
some sort of treatment to protect the Stillwater River. It maybe
necessary to_include baffles to increase retension, skimmers to
remove grease, oil and gas, and other undesirable compounds.that
maybe present.
Inorderto answer this question more fully other information
is necessary. Will the structure be sealed, what will become
of snow removed from the parking lot buildings, will deicer be
added in the parking lot.
One other comment received again.related to the soil and water
facility itself, that the facility should be surrounding by a
chainlink fence for child safety and 'plans for periodic sediment
removal should be included, a baffle to increase detention time,
skimmers to remove grease, oil and gas and flocculation to remove
other undesirable compounds. The" outlet at the pipe end should
spill into an area armored with field stone to reduce velocity
acquired in the pipe. Steve stated that as far as the landscaping
was concerned there was a'comment related to landscaping,
aesthetic, noise, wind, dust, litter and erosion control. Wind—
breaks along the parking lot and property perimeter should be
planted. Chainlink fence around the perimeter to limit access to
development and willa lso help contain litter. Lot sweeping and
litter pickup on regular basis. `
All insulation and building material should be in conformance
o/.
with the building code section requirements. Further comments
to minimize the impact on existing and future development, the
area of ownership, not to be developed in Phase I, should be
landscaped in a.manageable manner and properly maintained and
the same should apply to the area of ownership if Phase II is
developed.
Additional comment was to improve ingress and egress to dispurse
regional community traffic. The central site access across from
'Northridge should be eliminated and the north site access should
be assigned'to accommodate traffic coming into town from the north
and also that will be exiting and leaving and going north. The
south side access which is across from Meridian Road should be
designed for one way traffic at its intersection with 93 and
Meridian should be signalized. The Sunnyview Lane access site
should be one lane or one,way outbound, with pedestrian access
to its intersection,with OS.93 and should be signalized.
Came up with an eastern access.,that would tie in with the site
on the the north, by an access from the east side of this parti-
cular site. One is that the eastern access as shown on Map 3A
be acquired and approved for two-way traffic and get into the
overall circulation later.
Steve stated that in evaluating the overall impacts of the proposed
Mall developed information on submittal and comments which we
received from the various agencies .indicate that there maybe
additional public cost as a result of the Mall being developed.
It is. suggested that a new sattellite fire station may have to be built in the Buffalo Hill Area and at a initial cost of $500,O(
for construction and equipment,plus $150,000 per year for personnel
maintenance and operation. It is.also pointed out that
a fire station of same.,nature due to the type and magnitude of
development already existing and occurring in the area.
Police protection will also have to be provided for the project
for security and increased, traffic. It is also indicated that
this may have to be provided due to the growth already incurred
in area., Traffic.related costs will be evident at implementation
of the project, however due to the growth in the Buffalo Hill
Area some traffic improvements are becoming necessary. Project
implementation could cause the cost to be realized at an earlier
date.
Declining water quality as a result of the project may also be
affected. Certain precautions should be taken to protect the
quality of the Stillwater River and municipal and private water
supplies. These costs should be considered should annexation
to the city be requested.
the evaluation of costs versus overall benefits. Many of the
costs associated with project implementation can be measured in
dollar amounts, possible satellite fire station at $500,000 is
one of the costs and on the other hand other costs can not'be
qualified in terms of dollars, for noise, accompanying strip deveo
ment, less desirable neighborhoods,.and all become costs in some
form. The regional shopping center would allow Kalispell to take
its place as a trade center in Northwest Montana. Other could
be short term employment during construction, and long term during
expanded services in community. Residents, existing businesses
and hospital could benefit from the fire station. The project
j
could enduce additional development in an area where city services
are or may be available rather than in other parts of the county.
To be sure the city treasury would benefit from taxes paid to
the project. Project added impacts to the Buffalo Hill will come
in the form of added population and higher density developments.
With increased development upgraded water facility may be needed
and improvements to sewer system may also be necessary. This
will be accompanied by additional development in all area. The
City of Kalispell should feel the impacts in several ways as has
happened throughout other cities. It is likely that downtown
Kalispell will loose much of its character as a retail center
of NW Mont. This function will be assumed by the Mall and in
turn it very well become predominately a financial office service
center. The transition from retail to office will take much longer
than the withdrawal of the retail function. Traffic patterns
throughout Kalispell will be dramatically affected by the regional
Mall. Patterns will shift from the predominately central city
destination to a Buffalo Hill destination. This will have a
substantial effects on major and minor arterials as well as some
collector streets. While Kalispell can look assuredly at tax
revenue from the project, it can not expect it to go much further
than paying for improvements due to directly or indirectly to
the Mall.
Steve stated that before he gets into the 174 Plan and Alternatives
that did receive receive from almost every agency that questionaires
were sent to. Did not assess the transportation system other
than as an overall view and how it maybe affected and where
alternatives have to be made where a system does not exist at
the present time. In sending the information to the Hwy Dept.
they responded by saying that in order to come up with the answers
they would have to do a tremendous amount of work and study and
would not be able to get that information by the time requested
and advised that they had informed Developers Diversified that
before they would issue approach permits to US 93 that an impact
statement would be necessary. So no comments other than the
transportation study that was submitted which was sent in turn
since most of the improvements are on federal primary or federal
secondary systems and felt it was best for them to review the
systems.
In reviewing the 1974 Plan, which has been adopted by both the
cityd and county, this is principally what the plan looks at as
far as the Buffalo Hill area. There are four sections that we
look at, Sec. 1, 6, 31 and 36. This is the School section. Then
pointed out the locations on the map. The Plan looked at the
4 square mile area and came up with 5 basic recommendations.
The area and that area east of Grandview Lane be left in Suburban
Residential category, which is principally 2 dupa and that the
Northridge Area and Jr. High Area and Sunset Addn area be Urban
Residential Density Category, which is 2 to 8 dupa and that the
1
Parkview Terrace and part of the site being discussed and an area
N of Sunnyview Lane and S of Sunnyview Lane be placed again in
the Urban Residential category and that an area that is principally
from the hot spot from the area that drains off and slopes from
the Grandview east here be place in the Urban High Density or
High Density Urban Residentia ategory which will allow 40 dupa
so principally the entire area east and west of Hwy 93 was placed
in a residential category ranging from 2 to 40 dupa. The green
areas are open space.
As a major goal of that 1974 Plan, was attempt t',o cont .rol urban
sprawl by maximizing development potential and by using existing ,,.
community facilities, so in these areas of urban high density `._,/
or suburban residential that an attempt be made to develop those
areas at least to the density allowed so intensively use it!rather
than extensively.
The other point to use existing facilities and rather than Cunning
new sewer lines to maximize the capabilities of the existin€;
facilities whether they be water, sewer, street, whatever, to
maximize those facilities where they currently exist. That is
the principal of the goal, to control sprawl.
In surveying the entire Planning area there were 288 acres that
were in active use for commercial activities and have not done
an update of the entire area. In 1974 based on a ratio established
the retail lands that should be made available within the entire
planning area was 510 acres or not quite double the amount being
used for commercial purposes. If we look at methodogy, Bartholemew
and use some he has developed for land uses within American cities,
if we take the total area population, encompasses all Flathead,
most of Lincoln County and half of Lake County and take the estimate'
population of 1990 that the regional area may have, the estimate
is 113,000 people. In using that 113,000 people, if we had a
regionally oriented supply of goods and services that equal the
demand for them, then that regional population of 113,000 would
support approximately 420 acres of commercial land. That land
based on 1974 figures would be 4% of the entire developed area
within the Kalispell Planning Area. Currently we have in
conjunction with this Board and the Zoning Commission rezoned
the City of Kalispell and approaching the end of that project.
The map adjacent to the site plan indicates those areas which
have been or will be committed by zoning within the City of
Kalispell to comme4rcial of one sort or another,
either from neighborhood commercial, generalized commercial, down—
town resort area to industrial commercial and that area comprises J
515 acres and does lie wholly within the City of Kalispell. Almost
25% of the total land within the Kalispell. That's a high figure
when looking at other communities across the nation as to amount
of land that is devoted to commercial activity wihin any
incorporated community. If you take the area being committed
future and existing commercial plus commercial area that axisting
in Evergreen, south of Kalispell, not iln the city limits, you
would probably add to that 515 acres from 150 to 250 additional
acres. So you are looking at within the Kalispell Jurisdiction
somewhere between 700 to 900 acres devoted to commercial now and
in the future. So what we are saying there is enough land within
the jurisdictional area and enough land in the City of Kalispell
to serve the regional shopping needs of the region.
The request of Developers Diversified that if we were to amend
the plan and take some other things into consideration also but
Alternative Plan 3A change the Plan from a combination of Urban(-._`
High Density Residential to Commercial to accommodate a regional_-"
shopping Mall, there are some other changes, then this particular
area out of agricultural to suburban residential and this area
along Whitefish Stage that some of the area which is already
committed to Urban High Density through a zoning process be changed
from suburban residential to urban high density and this area
along Whitefish Stage be changed from suburban residential to
urban residential. The blue areas are Public. The east end of
Parkview Terrace to go from urban residential to urban high density
residential and park and the area around the hospital be changed
from urban to urban high density residential and that the area
north of the hospital and south and little east go from urban
residential to urban high density residential and that the high
density urban go to commercial to provide all commercial instead
of spreading them along Hwy 93. That is the development plan.
This 1974 Plan will accommodate a population of approximately
10,000 people if developed to maximum densities. Alternate Plan
3A which will accommodate Developers Diversified commercial would
accommodate 13,703 people and that is with principally the
population capacity of that same area with the addition of some
high density and suburban areas will handle a population of almost
in excess of 14,000 people.
One other Alternative which is 3B and place it over the top is
take some out of the commercial and going back to the 74 Plan
and leaving it as urban high density. The difference between
3A and 3B is principally as it deals with the two urban areas.
The one thing that came out of the process was that the mall
would attract approximately 14,000 vtpd and although high in the
beginning would in a short time achieve that. With 25% of the
population of the Planning area residing in Evergreen, and the
emphasis being structured here it necessitates some alternative
` in using Idaho and 93. In looking at the possibility of alleviating
;f that particular system made a recommendation that a bridge be
constructed across the Stillwater River and extend East—West
Evergreen drive from the Old Whitefilsh hwy or Stage to US 93.
It exists in the area and does not exist from here to Whitefish
Stage. The acquisition of this r/w or as this are subdivides
or receive acquisition of it,construction of a lengthy bridge
would tie in Evergreen without having to use Idaho. Would provide
backdoor access to the site itself. The main entrances from
Kalispell will be from Hwy 93 and Meridian Rd.
The alternative plan looks at the same type of major system .except
it doesn't consider ther Mall proposal, does consider the crossing
of Stillwater and does have a primary arterial collectilve up
93or down across Northridge Dr and probably should be signalized.
The development capacity of this alternative is almost 15,000.
As far as the recommendations are concerned. The Planning Board
recommends to the City Council and to the Board of County
Commissioners either Alternate Plan 3A or 3B. That they recommend
to the TAC (Technical ACtion Committee) approval of a circulation
system for an alternative plan 3A or 3B, and that they recommend
a development schedule for an extension of West Evergreena Drdive
and that the City review its sewer lines size and needs and the
201 FAcility Plan for the Buffalo Hill Area and 24" line maybe
needed instead of the 15" line, that the Planning Board proceed
with extra —territorial zoning in the Buffalo Hill Area to protect
the tegrity of any new adopted Plan and that the zoniing be in
/1
conformance with the land use Plan and that the City lcoate a
satellite fire station in the Buffalo Hill Area and that it be
centrally located to serve the desired 3 minute response time
radius of 1.2 miles.
Steve then proceeded to explain the area served by the fire statrun
as it related to the proposed fire station.
Steve explained that after several phone calls, and having
presented only alternatives, the Staff did submit a recommendation.
He then proceeded to read the letter (copy attached).
Quite a bit of clapping.
President Lupton called for questions from the Board. Being rione
felt that the Chair would not like to get into any lengthy question
as it pertained to interchanges.
A woman wished to know if there had been any traffic studies done
to know the about the amount of cars one was considering. President
Lupton indicated there was no study but did have vehicle �1.
count. Steve stated traffic counts as of 1977 and average trips
and advised that at the Northridge Drive intersection on 93, C-ttpd
was 6372, Merdian Rd. intersection was 8849, Sunnyview Lane it:
was 9571, and Grandview, (north end of Parkview Terrace) 5258.
It decreases as it goes farther north. Transportation study for
the Mall indicated it would be 14,000 vtpd. Some of that would be
part of the cars already using it.
Gentleman asked about the Schools, as it pertained to Russell
and indicated that they had been trying to get an overpass builti!;`;
over the highway and the Hwy Dept. did manage to get a warning
light and will wait till someone gets killed and if you don't
get any more cooperation than has been received, to build an over--:
pass where the Mall is, there is no way that highway can safely
handle it and people can get across four lanes, won't work.
Dan Johns, spokesman for Developers Diversified, spoke on behalf
of.Developers Diversified and with him was Ron Schivenski, Project
Mgr., and Andy.Burien, Archt. He stated that everyone was here
to consider land use and whether the area on Buffalo Hill can
be used for commercial purposes. That seems to be the point of
focus although really reviewing the entire four section area.
Looking at current uses in the area and at current developments,
it is important to note that to the south have five professional
office buildings and a hospital, church and rec center and a t,en
acre parcel which was annexed July of '78 that has a three acre
front on Sunnyview Lane which is zoned B-4. Same zoning
classification this Mall would seek on annexation. Across the
road from the site on 93 in the triangle piece at the top of
Meridian you are looking at a B-1 zone, under recent city action
was local commercial, where the Kalispell Floral is and along
Meridian and up Hwy 93 until the last vacant lot till you get,
to the houses, that front on Parkway Dr and 93 is zoned B-2 which
is local professional offices. Commercial activity in the area
is certainly not foreign and certainly proposed that the Plan
be amended to support this commercial development. Think that
the Plan shows 28 offices in the vicinity and 5 businesses and—�
so this developer does not feel that commercial development in
the area is at all adverse to use of the land any differently
as what is presently being done. You are looking at alternatives
to a' regional shopping center versus possibly 15,000 people in
multi —family units. To give you a little history on how this
lwas
arrived at, repeat performance, in April there was another
public hearing that all stemmed from a February request from the
Developer to the City to sell the City sewer and water services
prior to annexation to begin the project, begin the annexation
and have these services available while under construction and
until annexation is complete. The City took the position that
no annexation must be completed first so in response and that
the annexation would have to be consistent with the Comprehensive
Plan in the area the next step was to petition for an amendment
to, the Comprehensive Plan, as now done and seek to have the Plan
amended to have the property changed to commercial, annexed to
the city as a commercial tract of land. On March 13, Mayor Happ
forwarded a letter to Steve Petrini requesting that this public
hearing be conducted and do to confusion there was a hearing on
April 6th. but not to hearing the Plan amendment. On May 2nd
a letter was sent requesting Planning Board recommendations so
that the City Council could act and upon receipt response from
the Staff was we need 13 items before we can conduct that hearing.
The list considered rating plans, storm runoff, elevations,
landscaping, etc. June 26 all but the elevations were delivered
to the Staff prepared by the Developer and Archt. at their expense.
The elevations were presented on the 5th. or 6th. of July. The
-'
July 10th. meeting of the Planning Board was the agreement to
conduct this hearing on August 8th., however a week after, the
Staff requested additional copies of other material, so that they
could forward them to public agencies for input. These were
provided that same week and the Planning Staff then proceeded
to distribute them and then at the July 24th. meeting they
continued the date and through further discussion it was
established as tonight. The 13 questionaires concerning impacts
on the community and seeking input, Kalispell Chamber of Commerce,
Univ of Mont., School of Bus. & Econ. Res., Police Dept., Ins.
Services, Fire Dept., US Dept. Agr., SCS, Flathead Drainage, 208
Project, Mont. Fish & Game, Kal. Public Works, PP&L, MPC, now
the 13 that went out and the only two areas that really were of
Mr. Jones stated that the third area to be dealt with was highways
and that would have to be handled by the Hwy Dept. who have stated
there would have to be an environmental impact statement and a
hearing process.
Mr. Johns indicated that after the city amended the Plan that
permitted development of this project then annexation would be
instituted and then discussions would begin to mitigate these
impacts. Hoped to come up with an answer that would have the
least impact on Kalispell. Have a developer with a great deal
of experience and a willingness to build a project, to be a long
term resident, not here to put up a structure and then clear out,
for the Board to make a recommendation and the Council to act
on it. What if the Council does not amend the Plan to permit
this Plan, the developer then looks to the county and then proceed
with the County Commissioners and go that route. The best route
to minimize impact on Kalispell would be to amend the plan and
proceed from there. Lot of clapping.
President Lupton stated that the developer is going to do this
and what is hoped is to reduce the, impacts. Dan Johns said he 4..._..�
had an idea to get off the ground and would like to get it ofE
the ground hand in hand with the city. The project is a 15 M
one and a developer who was willing to cooperate and if in the
city contributing, based on figures from Monty Long, Assessor,
$354,872 in taxes and in the County it would be $265,433. The
difference between the two figures, if in the City, the city ;ets
and if in the county the city gets nothing.
President Lupton said that he was concerned that if it was in
to be handled the concern should be for the land use and the
handling of it. What was not being addressed was the land use,
but all the impacts as well as all the impacts addressed by agency.
Concerned only with the land use. Dan Johns said they had not
asked for all this data involving impacts, but had cooperated
with the Staff to secure all this information for them and now
were saying let's proceed onto the next step.
President Lupton said he was not saying these things were not
important, but that land use was the underlying factor.
President Lupton stated that in Steve's presentation could be
summarized in one stateament "that the Staff did not feel the
need at this time and that within the corporate limits of the
city were sufficient commercial, or access acreage devoted to
it and as one did not know what was commercial amounts in Everg\ i
there were perhaps an excess amount. Land use is what must be
discussed and then questioned the Board as to comments.
Ann Smith stated as zoning the city ran into this constant problem,
wanted the change from residential to zoning and as a result tended
not to zone as much property as had been requested and another
50 acres does give a lot more commercial and some of that which
has been zoned will probably lay dormant. reel what was available
should be filled up first.
Jim Thompson said he would have to go along with that and that
intensive land use lies to residential and applies to commercial
area with it becoming more intensive than extensive. Something
which was not covered was that this piece of proprty would only
be the tip of the iceberg and would drastically change traffic
patterns and as, they change commercial property is requested.
Basically from residential to commercial. Agrees with Lupton
that the discussion should be land use. Don't feel that the
project is justified in any shape, size or form. Have adequate,
area already zoned commercial, and major efforts to haveretain
them as such and once it goes commercial it never goes back and
feel that 3B should be adopted.
John Kain had no comment at this time.
Ray Lybeck felt that the publics feeling and thinking on this /
should be considered and know that the local newspaper had a quite,/
which indicated overwelming in favor and in additional people
fd .
he discussed this with and there've been a lot, expressed a desire
Jim Thompson indicated it was the way the question was worded,
\
~I
that if you had asked any one on the street whether they would
like a Mall they would say sure, but they aren't saying where,
when or how, just whether you would like one. Already have a
Mall in Kalispell zoned for that purpose. Didn't think that was
a fair sampling.
President Lupton felt it was constructive to open the public
hearing at 8:45 for public discussion. Requested that comments
be kept brief and to the point.
Tony Ilich, 321 Hilltop, wanted to know if any of the property
was currently zoned commercial, and could any of that be marketable
to any major, would they buy any of it? President Lupton
questioned whether he wanted to know if it was marketable? He
said no would someone like Sears come and build on it now. Lupton
said that perhaps the downtown area was engaged in a major
redevelopment and say that perhaps there was enough acreage in
the Gateway West being zoned right, that could do that and that
is all zoned commercial. Difficult to say the downtown was ready
for a Bon Marche, but it is possible with a redevelopment plan
that in the near future maybe ready. Have not had a great deal
of contact with the redevelopment.
Gentleman questioned the square on the map, how back in 1974 and
commercial now why it was set that way? Steve stated that in
1974 looked at the desirability from a single family residential
standpoint that that particular corner had the desirability from
an urban residential standpoint, because some of the site is
depressed, but if some type of apartment complex, townhouse,
whatever could be built in a nice setting and not affected by
that kind of subsurface area.
Man stated that Steve eluded to 14,000 population on Plan 3B.
How many acres did this encompass?
Steve stated that the 14,000 people would be where the shopping
center would be and that was made up south of the center, around
the hospital, Whitefish Stage and in the urban densities in
Northridge that were not developed and east of what could ord
would be the site, so principally looking at a mile west of 93,
south 3 miles and east all .the way to Whitefish Stage so looking
at a total of about 4,700 dwelling units, as a maximum development.
We are not anticipating that, just that it has the ability to
Mrs. Shirts said .she lived in Hillcrest Estates and it was a
neighborhood of working people and these people have built new
homes, purchasing much of their furnishings from Spokane, Missoula,
and their clothes at the Southgate Mall, now if we have that much
commercial area, and people find a need to purchase from other
places, then there is something wrong with the way the commercial
is being used. Looked at the Southgate Mall and a beautiful place
to shop and could be used here.
Young woman, most of friends are young, and would like to live
here a long time, seen all the big cities and big malls and how
ugly they can be, because they are so plastic and would like to ,
see enough existing space for commercial, etc. Should concentrate
on an opera house or something like that.
Tom Barnard, stated that land use plan has serious implications 1
and in trying to jam more traffic onto Main and fill up the -
commercial areas, and it is necessary to stretch the commercial
land out as other streets are jammed to capacity and the major
growth is to the north and northeast and east and forcing all
that traffic through Main and Idaho. Somewhere you have to put
other commercial land and whether it is this developers site or
not it has to be somewhere.
Francis O'Boyle, 5 Avenue WN, and concern is 515 acres of
commercial in Kalispell and how much land is zoned for multi —family
dwellings in the same picture? Steve stated very little and
then proceeded to show the small spots, nothing in Northridge
or Adams, piece in Porta Villa and one by the school, north, small
area along behind Main St., 7 blks east of Main and one west,
(about 35 blks) Have about 100 blks.
Taylor, how much additional water will it take and where will
it come from? Steve stated the city said that in serving the
entire bluff area that the city has facilities that are able to
serve, whether its commercial or residential.
Bob LaShaw; California, answer several questions about the
availability and desirability of commercial land that is presently
zoned commercial that would be feasible to the national concerns,
The JC Penny Co has stated that there definitely is desirable 1p—�
which zoned commercial where they would consider building an exLI.1
planded department store within the City Limits.
President Lupton wanted to know if he could tell them where they
are? Perhaps but didn't think it was for sale.
It is in the Gateway West properties.
Clara Manland, moved up from Helena and Helena has redone their
whole downtown area and so far the largest department store down
town has moved out, leaving them without any shopping facilities.
Their biggest hardware and JC Penny's have moved. People want
somewhere to shop and I don't care how much commercial property
you have, you don't have the facilities for shopping. Heavy
clapping. What kind of department stores will come, will it help
the people up here? Have they proposed a department store?
President Lupton, said who, the developers? In the Mall, do they
have a department store? President Lupton said he was sure there
was a major anchor. The developer stated there would be three
major anchors and approximately 55 other stores. Sears is the
type of anchor, and she felt that perhaps they meant ICM, as anchor
and that was so high above their heads, were really anchored.
Laughter.
President Lupton felt that the people should think about and that
is the quality and proposal and probably be a very beautiful C
complex and should address the downtown develop plan and what
it can propose and the proposal for Gateway West Mall, probably
equally beautiful and although not present today they may very
well be in the future. Are not saying it is black or white or
nothing. We are pursuing some of the commercial which is available
in use and intensifying and upgrading that.
- John Benson, 6th.Ave.W, traffic, an access road to serve Evergreen
to keep traffic off Hwy 2 and also have to have your approach
off Hwy 93, and then figure the feasibility of commercial and
how feasible to put another Mall across the street and draw all
that traffic onto the same highway when you can hardly get across
it now, and President Lupton said that was not the type of question
he could answer, first you have to have the kids and then build
the classrooms first.
The shopping malls isolated and you aren't going to have 14,000
people come all down at once, but fluctuating during the day.
Woman wanted to know who the three anchors were? Why keep beating
around that? Andy Burien said he can't tell you because the stores
make their own announcements and can assure there are three or
four department stores. The announcements have to be made by
the tenant themselves. Woman wanted to know if there has been
any study done of the 55 stores and 4 department stores drawing
from all northwest Montana of which Libby and Eureka with Missoula
staying in Missoula. Where are we going to get the people to
support these stores and what happens to the people who set them
up and then can't make a living. Didn't think they can support
that many. Some clapping.
Throwing it out without answer required.
President Lupton stated that Diversified supplied a market
feasibility study and see if it can support it and if the developer
is going to put 15 M on the line they won't unless they feel the
project will be successful.
Dan Johns didn't think it was the function of the Board to
legislate againsst competition. This is still the free enterprise
system and if somebody can build a better mouse trap and can put
their money on the line, they are entitled to build that mouse
trap. I don't feel that any board or agency has the right to
legislate against somebody and tell them you can't invest your
dollars because we got enough retail clothing stores in Kalispell
and preserve and protect those who exist. Somebody else can come
in and build a better food or clothing store and they have a right
to do that. That's part of the free enterprise system.
Gentleman from the audience said that wasn't quite right, why
not let the Dutch come in and buy all the agricultural land around
here. They can afford to buy it. Then what are you going to
do with all the little people, huh. Yes, business is a risk,
go downtown and another is closed. We know that not everyone
is doing so much business that they can't handle everybody that
comes into this town, and consequently you talk about a nice
beautiful Mall out there. Those guys can write it off for five
years, and everybody downtown and all the small people that are
going to get knocked off, and get busted out of business,
percentage is going to go way up, all the little stores that are
/0.
;oing to go into the Mall are going to turn over because either
they are going to move up from downtown, pay the rent, those are
-ommon things that happen. Don't tell us about free enterprise
when the biggies come in. Cause you can knock off anybody with
:he biggies.
)an Johns said he didn't think that changed anything about free
enterprise whether you are big or small.
loman said you are talking about our lives, what can we do., We
lon't want it to be like every place else, this is our home.,
?resident Lupton felt that the comments should be turned away
from a sparring match as there were strong feelings on both sides
)f the question. He was concerned that.Dan Johns felt the Board
aas legislating against free enterprise. Advised that the Board
aas made up of lay people acting in -a recommending capacity, and
)urely and simply pass on that recommendation, and in
addressing free enterprise and have a personal view of the facility
Land jland use and that is the one fragile physical possession
:hat they have and not necessarily own and feel that do not have
:he God given right to take land and do with it as we please and
Lt is the one thing that inflames people that doesn't have a clear
answer and didn't think it was right to throw it wide open and
Let people build anything anywhere they want to build it and say
:hat's right because it is free enterprise and. we live in a
-apitalist society that we all love and enjoy and that's the way
ae built our country and that's right, and unfortunately it isn't
:ight, nor is rigid or absolute zoning right either so we have
:his area we have to work out. Have to work the guidelines and ;
nake it right for all and have the right blend for commercial,
irban and farmland, so I take offense that we are going to sit
lown here and legislate against free enterprise.
Doman had a question about there being a lot of commercial activity
)ecause of the hospital and buildings. I just wondered if
according to planning boards was there no distinction made between
z hospital as a commercial activity and a big retail store. Steve
;aid there was. Woman said it was nice the way the hospital was
:here and then'the professionals and knew how helpful it was for
:he doctors to have their offices so close to the hospital and
lidn't think that makes way for making it all commercial. Think
:hat is a very special area of town and specially to keep the
traffic and congestion away from and when you want to get to the
iospital, you want to get there without bucking traffic lights
and traffic jams. Think that should be protected.
>tan Pine said he concurred with the fact and that maybe not all
:he planning board members agree but zoning and planning should
iot be used primarily to' deter or cause a major factor to cause
:o deter major competition. These are factors. Don't think any
iecision 'should be made primarily to keep out occupations due
:o zoning. Should consider is there a need or desire for some
nore shops, nice department stores, and as eluded to the desire
Ls yes, we are a commercially oriented society and like to spend,_..._,
)ur money and a nice and more places to spend it. The key positi 1
I
is back to the planning and should not be deterred by whether
people want another department store particularly as there are
two other proposals for locations for this development to take
place. The brown spot, spent three years to get the zone through,
annexed, etc. Under the Comp. Plan there was a need for townhouses
and condominiums in a suburban area and not just abutting or
adjacent surrounding a high density commercial development, and
we have roughly between 1/6th or 1'/4th of the density the zoning
would allow us, 20 d.u.p.a. and we have 4 to 5. There was a plan
which shows it residential and the type was a low density for
the area and concerned after spending considerable time based
on a concept, if it is going to be changed, would like to see
a major justification why that particular location is particularly
desirable for a shopping center. Mr. Johns said there were only
3 of the 13 contacted that were really negative, but the point
is, self included, and obviously have a selfish interest, and
made comments based on the Plan and spent a considerable amount
of money and time and with a risk and it seems to me before that
Plan is changed, and if there were no plan our there that would
be one thing, but once you have a plan, before you change that
plan instead of saying there is not much negative for it, think
it should be evaluated as to what is positive, why that location,
is there a need or would we like to have another department store.
Is that the proper location. Same thing you have had to evaluate
in Hillcrest Estates and said OK it is going right across the
street, sure you want it but not right there.
Woman asked when Developers Diversified arrives at a community
and decides to start a project, do you not look at any, most
communities have zones and they have zoning and the Comprehensive
Plan, and how did you choose this piece of land? Why did you
not go to the City and say where are you commercially zoned and
spend your 15 M upgrading part of the downtown? Dan Johns said
he would let Mr. Burien answer that. The Mall location was
generally set up by the tenants who want to be in the area. You
mentioned about marketing study. Each major tenant runs his own
marketing study before he decides to go into the Mall and the
three major tenants who said yes, our marketing study says yes,
and it is all done from a market study from an independent market
research, the location, the population, the income, and trying
to find the amount of money that goes out of the city to the
surrounding areas which should anchor this city is spent in other
areas. Done according to market research, which surprised because
your convention and tourism is building up and two of the major
factors in the market study which influenced the tenant to make
this decision to go here is your Canadian influx, Canadian money,
which could be even better, and secondly the amount of money that
leaves your city to be spent elsewhere. Each individual tenant
has done an evaluation by site and by economic factors within
the city. Woman wanted to know what economic factors showed that
site over something that was already commercialized to make it
necessary to go through the trouble of changing the Plan. Lady
above mentioned, have had many of these and just because you happen
to have some sites up in a downtown area, and probably say some—
thing that might offend you, but please take it as I mean it,
just because you happen to have a site in the downtown area,
doesn't mean its good for a place that a major tenant wants to
come. There is many instances when offered property in urban
renewal areas, downtown areas, and there are many factors that
enter into a decision to come to a downtown area, some if they
are going to rehabilitate a zone, the cost of operation in a
multi. —story building is much more than a one story new store,
replanned and get a lot more than the money they have to put into
it, than in a redevelopment area. We can not develop the type
of Mall, some of the strength of a Mall is its size, and the tey�`
all being there to draw other people. As a person said all the
small people will go out of business, because we bring this Mall
in. I beg to differ with you. Competition breeds more people,
you have more people coming and more money being spent in the
area. People go out of business because they can't keep up with
competition and not a matter of because somebody moves in next
to you you are going to go broke. You give the services you keep
your people. One thing that will happen in this Mall, the local
tenants will all be approached and have a chance to be a part
of it and the only ones we will have will be the majors and a
certain amount of the chains that will come with us and there
will be plenty of room for the local people. We are not trying
to come in here to destroy this, as Mr. Johns indicated we have
a tremendous investsment and everyone of the majors will have
a tremendous investment not only us, our 15 M is only a basic
shell of a building, think of the investment each department store
and each owner will have in his store when he goes into that.
This isn't something tha.t we walked into this town and said
gee there's a nice piece of property. There is a tremendous amount
of research that has gone into this, spent tremendous amount of
money just deciding this is the right place to go. We made a
decision the other day to walk away from a pile of money -in a
town in Montana we felt that did not justify a Mall. So we went
through .the process to prove to ourselves and prove to the tenants
that this was the place to go. We all came out with the same
decision. We went to the majors office in New York and made a
decision to walkaway. We are not sitting here with pipe dreams.
Would like to address one other point, We are prepared to start
this Mall, your building officials can attest to this, our drawings
are done, almost done, prepared to start thi'.s Mall immediately.
We sit here telling you we can building this Mall. Not talking
about other people deciding that maybe they can do this since
we came into the city. Not talking about pipe dreams, we are
going to do this down here, over here. We have a solid situation
here with a positive response. Very easy for the people to stand
here and tell you that yes we got- two other developments, no you
don't have two other developments, you have two other ideas, two
other ideas, you don't have two other developments. You have
one right now that can get started and I can tell you right now,
if we were permitted we'd have our permit filed tomorrow and
starting tomorrow. Woman wanted to know if the community decides
it just doesn't want it, does that make any difference. Just
because you say Mr. Sears and Mr. Penny we want you here doesn't
mean they will do it. They know where they want to be and go.
to another town, Kalispell is not the only place and they have
other stores to do, and if you think you are satisfying your
merchandise people you should look at the report to see how much
leaves this town.
Now that you have told us what is wrong with downtown, now tell
us what is wrong with Gateway West? Woman said, Everything.
Who decides and where is it decided, if he gets a building permit
/CO .
tomorrow, where is the weight of the decision. There is no teeth
in anything. This is just advisory. No teeth except in the final
decision by the Commissioners and City Council, is that true?
President Lupton said that is correct. Gentleman said they have
to both agree, how does that work? President Lupton said to answer
that, don't know if anybody has addressed and if City Council
said yes and the Commissioners said no, in as much as they have
both adopted the 1974 Comprehensive Plan together and said this
is right for the Kalispell Area. Steve said he had no answer.
Never had it happen. No precedent before where it affects both
the city and county and one of the governing bodies saying yes
and one of the governing bodies saying no. Should this come from
this Board with a recommendation, yes we think it is a good idea
to change the plan, then it would go from the board that the
developers wish to annex to the city and they would do that and
a public hearing would be held, and the city council would act
on that annexation request. And that would be in accordd with
acquiring city services, water and sewer and should this board
send forth a disfavorable recommendation and say both governing
bodies say no I don't think it is a good idea then Dan has
indicated that the developers will proceed with development within
the county and proceed with their own services, well and facilities
and whatever needs to be done. Developers indicated they have
other alternatives.
Woman said in other words it is going to go one way or another.
Don't make any difference. President Lupton said no he was not
saying that, Mr. Johns is saying that. There is going to be a
Mall. President Lupton says thisis what the Board understands
that they are indicating that they want to do it the easiest way
possible with city water and city sewer and we want to come into
the city and be in conformance with the Comp. Plan so all the
hastles and technical aspects solved and yes we will do it anyway.
President Lupton stated he felt there was more to it than we'll
build it anyway. Like to feel that the 1974 Plan has teeth and
the Council and Commissioners will believe in it and will act
on it appropriately enough, but if they do feel that Mall may
not take place.
Jim Thompson stated he disagreed with the developers arguments
that they are the only game in town. They happen to be the only
game in town with no strings attached so to stay. Free shot at
a piece of property so everybody can write a ticket. I think
we have two good locations, both downtown redevelopment area and
Gateway West area. Granted they aren't free and clear so each
tenant can say I want to be there, and I want to be there. But
if our community will take the effort and make it attractive enough
to they know they can come into the community with a degree of
confidence and feel that it will and through the efforts of the
redevelopment and what is happening there, and the majors can,
with putting in their parking, so don't let anybody fool you to
the fact that this is the only game in town, because it isn't.
Think that people in the community are not blind and know the
character of the community they want. Think that's a good tactical
1 act.
As for development downtown, gentleman, former Flathead Valley
resident, left here four years ago and in a redevelopment area
in Santa Barbara and its dying and people are leaving there and
businesses are going out faster and going into the Mall faster.,
Been back in the Valley six months and spoke to community people,,
about the Mall and the only negative comments have been from peo; j
who have businesses downtown or involved with downtown or have
businesses or involved with Gateway West Mall. Only negative
comments. Only negative comments on the Mall going up north.
Woman said California is the land of Malls and sprawls and that,
is what they are trying to get away from here.
Steve stated in contacting PP&L and MPC they indicated they would
have no problems with serving power and electric but no specific
comments because there was not enough information supplied to
them of the type of service in order to make any specific service
but general comment was they could supply power and gas.
John Kain said in response to the lady from Helena, and he's from
Iielena also, and as for Santa Barbara, never been there. What
you should look at is the desire and ability, and how they can
(undiscernible).
Woman said when you talk to people they want a Ma11, how many
people, people in general don't want to have to look for a parking
space. Think if you ask the majority of the people they would
like this,.and you are saying Oh No .... want to say the area.
You are saying the stores will come in, well how come they are
not .... they won't come in, you can say they will but they won't,
there is a lot big areas, there's a parking lot downtown and the7-
still don't.
President Lupton said there have been other possibilities explained
tonight, it is a pipe dream and if one could herd all the people
of Flathead County into the King Dome and display on the north
wall the Developer's Diversified proposal and on the east wall
the downtown Redevelopment Corp proposal and on the west wall
the Gateway West proposal and on the south wall, what's there
now and then have a referendum. Now we are saying we have a mall
and the people want a mall and Developers Diversified Mall is
the answer. In my mind, it doesn't quite follow step one, two
three. If we want a Mall, Developers Diversified is the Mall,
therefore that is the Mall we build. And I recognize what Mr.
Burien has said, he is ready to start today, does that make it
right to alter the land forever, or should we wait for two year's
and do it for the Gateway West mall, or wait for eight months
and do it downtown and if we had a proposal from everything tonight
maybe we could vote on it. But that's a pipe dream, and we are
talking about Developers Diversified and we are talking about
land use in this area and we are talking about adding commercial
acreage and it really gets twisted around and where are these
people coming and why aren't they coming into downtown, that maybe
part of it, maybe we are not quite there yet and I am awfully '
cautious about jumping into land use change unless you know its'
.right.
Lived here 25 years ago and came back about 12 years ago and in
12 years we have seen what has happened to the community in just
the 12 years since I have been here. Now what I am asking, it
seems I have heard or read what the community has projected to
grow in so many years.... Hasn't there been figures so that this
many more or that many more people are going to be here say within
ten years. President Lupton wanted to know if she had been here
at 7:30 and she said no not till about quarter to eight. President
Lupton said they had a presentation briefly and 1990 it was an
estimate of 113,000 in the trade area, not Flathead County. —
Estimate for Flathead.County is about — between 73 and 76,000.
Woman said if you are going to grow this much within ten years
still will need more Malls, shopping centers, because the downtown
area won't be able to handle it. After sitting and listening
to this, own opinion, that outlining area, had a gentleman from
Great Falls, business potential was like the City of Great Falls,
and now look at how many people have moved in now. If you
projecting this population for another ten years, we couldn't
be handle this type of business downtown.
Chuck Mercord, represent Kalispell Dev. Corp., intended to respond
tonight to the attempts to rehabilitate the downtown area and
think that the feeling of the crowd would be that 100% of the
people would vote for increased retailing and I think that the
downtown corporation would support that. Maybe its location that
is what we are all talking about. Number of.studies have been
done by professional people on behalf of the ICDC. Also say
basically the same thing the developers are saying, we need more
retail outlets and again come back to the location of the thing.
The community now has additional tools it didn't have even at
the April meeting, financing and other methods, and properties
can be assembled and provided to the developer at a rate or price
that would fit between the budgetary requirements of the developer
to do things in the area other than suburban or periphery areas.
This has been demonstrated by the Hahn Corp, sure the gentlemen
are familiar with them also, who have done the downtown redevelop—
ment in Greeley, Colorado and have developed a downtown area in
Ogden, Utah, some 3 square blocks comprising some 30 acres, don't
mean to compare with either of the two communities, but it is
possible to do these things. We would not propose a redevelopment
such as Helena has because that in itself has shown that what
they have done there is not the best example of restrengthening
a downtown, but I think that some extremely important comments
have been made tonight and particularly by Mr. Johns of Developers
Diversified, that I would like to say, for example, I hope you
can take those at face value, and I'd like to quote, his comment,
that alternatives that creates the least adverse impacts on
Kalispell and I think that's extremely important because that's
what a lot of us are talking about. Also there was a great deal
of consideration given to technical impact talking about
transportation and some of the other technical aspects of the
mall and nobody argues with the statistics of the engineers and
in that regard there are no comment on the economic impact of
the Mall and I thilnk there are some considerations by local
governments and certainly .in our review of rehabilitation of the
downtown and an attempt that nobody cares about the downtown and
those maybe valid comments by people who are not familiar what
the downtown does to the tax base.
n the 1974 study, Mr. Gallagher has that, which related to the
/9-
Central Business District which is primarily the area we would
be interested in, comprises some 12% of the geographical area
within the taxable community and it also provides 30+% of the
tax base. If that tax base were to change by the loss of some
of the people, that lack would have to be made up somewhere by
citizens, certainly a new Mall, any new physical improvement wil_.,'
hamper the tax base. One should be aware of what the costs would
be to the city to supply utilities to these facilities. At the
last meeting, a gentleman from Billings was here mentioned that
the Mall brought considerable tax base to the City of Billings,
some $120,000 to year and the increase cost to the city to provide
utilities to that Mall ran in excess of $3.1M and it has been
eluded to that the increased tax base would require utilities
so it probably increased tax base would do little or more than
pay for itself.
Obviously there are statistics and tax base that would bear that
out. The fact that we have eluded to the technical impact, and
the alternative that creates the least adverse impact honestly,
thos are the things that should be considered and also Mr. Johns
said the developers were willing to sit down and discuss the
project and land use. Think that is an excellent suggestion.
Feels there are some alternatives to this site, and may prove
positive and negative, but was not sure anybody had been provided
with the facts and figures that an alternative could not be used.
One comment on the free enterprise comment that Mr. Johns eluded
to, and think the last thing any of them here would be accused
of opposing free enterprise. Don't think that's the issue. The
issue here is land use and zoning that's been., It has been
mentioned there is land within the city that could provide more 0
space, certainly there may not be 30 or 50 acres in one square
block but the fact is other communities have had the problewm
and redeveloped the downtown with majors and leads one to believe
that particularly with additional code that the community, city
and county governments can singly at a price that could be
attractive to the developer. Also that in ten years the downtown
couldn't handle it, and that maybe the downtown deserves some
consideration in the alternative structure that was proposed by
Mr. Johns and I'm sure that when that builds up in the ten year
plan it will take care of itself.
The KDC unanimously voted to support the rehabilitation of the
downtown area and these people are made up of businessmen and
to help the community and businesses, etc. and personally in the
business in the downtown area, and personally would be the least
bit hurt by the downtown should development happen else ehre.
Does not personally represent his business. The businessmen
personally supported and raised the funds to get the KDC going
to do something for the downtown.
President Lupton wondered if anyone had anything to say that had
not been said.
John Holt, on behalf of the Medical Association, stated that
unfortunately Dr. Kirk VanNelson wasn't able to appear due to-'�
the Art Show. Felt that the position of the Medical Assoc. is U
well known, if the Plan is adopted, would hope that the basic
� • 1
safeguards were Sunnyview Lane and the inherent characteristics
of the medical community and hospital facility and that basic
precautions be taken assuring that there wouldn't be any additional
noise that would unduly affect the patients.
President Lupton stated that he believed that Mr. Vidal made these
comments at the April meeting.
President Lupton asked for additional comments.
Iyo-rm Hines, lives in the Hillcrest Estates area, felt that any
plan that included the Whitefish Stage area or arterials to this
area are completely out of the question. Right now it would be
much safer and more practical to eject 14,000 cars into Hwy 2
and 93 system to inject 1000 more cars onto Whitefish Stage and
West Evergreen. Those two roads are two death traps now, people
have been killed on both, on West Evergreen and Whitefish Stage.
Out of the question at this point. Arguing on the present zoning
and arguing with the Commissioners and Frank Guay and those people
for a long time to do something with Whitefish Stage and the County
categorically says they can't do anything, because they can't
buy the r/w. Don't have the money to do it, and a long ways before
they can, two other points brought up about their marketing study
that you could blow a hole that you could drive a tank through,
anybody that thinks high powered market consultant that thinks
they'll drive to Kalispell when they can much easier drive to
Spokane, has their clock wound backwards. No. 2 any time when
somebody brings up emotional issues like motherhood, apple pie,
and free enterprise is behind a smoke screen as those people are
obviously can not argue their point rationally, so they better
not be erational emotionally. So I wonder if there's more major
flaws in their marketing study than discovered by the smoke screen.
Gentleman has no way of accurately counting the dollar amount
or % of what comes from Eureka and Libby, but being a merchant
in town we enjoy a very good hunk business on a year around basis,
so please don't write them off and any other retail merchants
that are here will agree. That is about as far as our radius
goes in that direction and very handsome business.
Woman stated that one thing that goes hand in hand with land use
planning, and that is energy efficiency. Maybe next year or five
years we will have to realize that things will keep going up and
perhaps we won't want to jump into our car and drive S miles to
a shopping mall and I think we have to consider more energy
efficiently and that is something that should be really considered.
President Lupton felt that all were getting tired and the developer
had been waiting since Jan. and that City Council and Commissioners
and must get on and take action and ask for a few more comments
if we have not covered any ground and requested that it not be
repetitious.
Walt Bahr, 403 Parkway Drive, unfortunately he will be able to
walk to the Mall, approximately one blk from it. Will have a
definite impact on his life and way of living. We are here tonight
to talk about land use planning and there is a proposal and there
is a request to change the zoning on a fairly large tract of land
in their neighborhood from the currently residential to the high
density residential. This is Plan 3B as a resident in that ',area.
Just as soon see a Mall in the area as a high density urban
residential area. There are several facts involved. When we
start building homes and residents on highways they change to
businesses almost invariably. There has been but one or two
exceptions. No new residential units built on any major highway
in the Kalispell area or Flathead within the last five year"
whether they be single family or multi —family. The use of highways
are for businesses and Hwy 93N lends itself very attractively
to business access. The people are there from Whitefish, Columbia
Falls, the developments on Hillcrest and all the rural areas
northwest from town. There is a market. For those of you who
don't think people shop in Kalispell there was over 100,000,in
Canadian funds expended in retail merchants alone in Kalispell
this last weekend. This is exclusive another 100 thousand that
went to recreational activities in Kalispell this weekend. There
was probably at least that much that left Kalispell for back to
school shopping or appliances and automobile. These things can
be done in that regional mall. The downtown area and the
redevelopment group are to be commended for their efforts on for
some time but the problems downtown are lack of room. Every'
business downtown wants to expand and they can't because they
can't buy property for parking because the only building to be
build that last few years was the Main and First had to get a
variance from the city for the parking requirements so they could
build that particular building. Believed that Gateway West'
announced Phase II some 4 years ago and has not been built., There
are some very viable and economic reasons why it hasn't built \l
and possibly will not be built. He for one think that the chant
in that area while it will affect him personally, adversely, can
see where it can become and will become a welcome economic social
and personal welcome aspect to the community.
President Lupton asked for comments.
Being none he opened the meeting to comments to the Board.
Board took a five minute recess.
President Lupton thanked the audience for their attention and
said that the Board had option 3, 3A, and 3B and possibly others
or a blend of both. Staff has submitted three. Need comments
and discussion and take action tonight.
Dale Haarr said that in order to center the discussion he moved
that the Board recommend that the Plan be amended to include
Alternative 3B and that the request of Developers Diversified
be rejected at this time; seconded by Ann Smith.
Ann Smith said she would like to make a comment and sitting
listening for 22 hrs. and the issue has not gotten down to land
use, which is what the Board was here for. Basically been do
we or don't we want a Mall. I'd love to have a mall but I,don't_.
think that is the proper use for that land. I don't think we ( ).
have taken into consideration the impact on the residential area--'
in Northridge, Hillcrest, Mission view. Really think there is
going to be a tremendous impact on those areas, a decline in
property values, and eventually a strip development up 93 and
I guess I just like to fight that off as long as she can. Might
be day dreaming but the way she feels. Some clapping.
Bob LeDuc said he disagreed and that this Board is always stood
up for the majority of the people and most of the recommendations
have been made for this land use and like Walt said and something
and can use something like it. You know as well as he does that
you aren't going to build a residential area along 93 and think
that 90% of the decision for 90% of the people and like to go
from B4 to a 3A Comp. Plan recommendation. Excessive clapping.
John Kain said that at this time 25% of the incorporated city
is zoned commercial and that is higher percentage than the City
of Spokane. Secondly this Board sits here many evenings reviewing
subdivisions a mile out, two, three miles out and have very fine
residential land in that particular proposal.
Fran 011endike said she really feels in the middle because she
really feels the need for more retail development, area is crying
for it, however discussing land use planniing and cannot feel
this is good land use planning to turn this residential area into
commercial and so, feel being blackmailed, and I understood them
to say they are going to build it there anyway, no matter was
difference what is done tonight, it will go there, hate to be
put into this position.
Dorothy Garvin felt there was houses up both sides of the road
on 93 and there is ample commercial land so in favor of the motion
that was made.
Jim Thompson said he would disagree with anyone who said that
land will not develop residentially. Location, views, etc. are
too prominent not to be good residential land. Hard to find as
it is. Location and access to the city , city services, medical
facilities, are all too desirable to convert it to some 50 odd
acres of merchants and I say it again, it is not 50 acres being
talked about, talking about something so major that most people
are unable to comprehend what will happen to 93 going north from
this area from what it is going to draw. It's going to draw all
businesses that aren't here now, market furniture stores, etc.
There are other areas where it is zoned where they can go also
and I feel that way and it will go residential. There is a new
home up there that sold last month for well over $150,000 and
backs up to Hwy 93 in Parkview Terr. I'd say if this center goes
in there the value will go down. The impact of lighting, trafficd
and congestion in that area. Those quiet residential streets
will no longer be quiet residential streets as traffic seeks the
least line of resisstance.
Ray Lybeck stated he would like to say he is the only farmer on
the Board, full time farmer, so when look at the land use and
increase the density, this looks like good planning, and glad
a .
ee/9-7-79
to see it. The areas that are brought out and are changing to
higher density. Then along with this if you are going to have
this kind of people, that Steve mentioned in the neighborhood
of 14 or 15,000, you are going to have to have shopping centers,";_..
Going to have to have someplace that these people to buy, so
I think that this first Plan, Plan 3A looks like real land use
planning.
President Lupton said so you would not be in favor of the motion,
Ray, right? That's right.
President Lupton called for the question, a favorable motion on
Alternate Map Plan 3B. A negative vote would be against a change
to the Plan to high density residential and the proposed site
for developers diversified.
Vote was 6 to 2 (LeDuc & Lybeck) to amend according to Plan 3B.
Lupton said this Board was. a recommending body and a letter would
go forth to both the City Council and Board of County Commissioners
John Kain said that whille this Board is in session he would like
to make a motion to proceed with extra —territorial zoning in the
Buffalo Hills Area to protect the area; seconded by Jim Thompson.
President Lupton said he was not sure the Board was ready for
that.
President Lupton clarified that extra territorial zoning be
considered for this same 4 mile square area. Lybeck wished to
know how far this extended? Out to the limits? Just the 4 sq.r"
the area 3B.
Ray Lybeck said he would like to make a suggestion that this be
tabled to give the Board a chance to study this, what really is
proposed. President Lupton clarified the motion and called for
the question, the vote was 4 to 4 tie with President Lupton being
required to vote. President Lupton advised that the Chair voted
against the motion and the Board not hastely jump into zoning
in as much as does believe there is a lot at stake and must protect
the integrity of the plan. Don't think it prudent to jump into
zoning so quickly, and ask it be placed on the agenda at the
earliest poss Ke-date ---
Ann Smith moved that the meeting adjourn, seconded by Fran.
Meeting adjourned at 10:35 p.m.
W. J. Lupton, Pres. Ray Lybeck, Secr.
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