03-27-793-27-79
Minutes
of
2-27-79
Approved.
A regular meeting of the Kalispell City —County Planning Board was
held at 7:30 p.m., Tuesday, March 27, 1979 at the Courthouse East
Community Room, 723 5th. Avenue East, Kalispell, Montana.
Members Present:
Fran 011endike
Dorothy Garvin
John Kain
James J. Thompsons
W. J. Lupton
Dale W. Haarr
Ray Lybeck
Others Present:
(2) APO Staff Repr.
Steve Petrini
Jim Mohn
Approx. 30 — 40 Guests
President Lupton called,the public hearing held by the Board open
at 7:53 p.m..
President called for corrections to the Minutes of 2-27-79, there
being none Fran 011endike moved.that they be approved as mailed;
seconded by Dorothy Garvin: motion carried.
President Lupton opened the hearing on Willow Glen Estates. It was
Willow Glen Estates explained that Willow Glen Estates was the subdivision that tied
25.32A, Willow in with the Zone Change Request heard,by the Zoning Commission earlier
Glen & Leisure Subdivin the evening and which the Commission had approved.
SW4 of NW4, Sec.,2"
T28N, R21W.
Tabled.
Jim stated that the Staff Report was self explanatory` and that he
would not go into any specifics unless requested. (copy attached)
He gave a brief legal description.
Jim stated that the Staff recommended approval this this proposal
with three conditions as outlined-.in.the-report.
Jim said that as far as input from, adjacent owners, one had indicated
with some delight the fact that the development was being proposed
and another indicated that as long as, -the zoning did not accommodate
mobile homes, there was no objection. Jim said that was all that
he had to present.
President Lupton,called on Mr. Russell and/or Mr. Stokes for comments
on the proposal. Paul Stokes stated as far as the Staff recommenda—
.tions were concerned, this was discussed with Jim and the 10' access
controlstripwas already there and Mr. Russell agreed to an
additional 15' setback on Willow Glen. The extensions of the road
both to the north.and to the.east will be preserved as easements,
such, that at a ,future date .they can, be put into roads. The only
other thing that needs addressing is the topography and the drainage.
That portion of ground is a,portion of: an old slough and proposing
to recontour it much in the same manner that it is now naturally
and not going to alter ;the natural path of the drainage through the
subdivision, the natural .drainage comes from the north down through
the circle area with.,the park and splits -and goes to the southern
most,corners. _Proposing to keep it the same. As for fill will if
he can if.this.is a practical alternative but if he has to buy fill
then it won!t,be but willing to.,investigate all sources and realizes
that he will,have,to.bring in come select material. The contours
on the north..and east,,agree,to recontour those where there is not
a drainage or erosion problem,,and.those steeper slopes will be reveg-
1.
etated. A small area runs down so doesn't feel this will be a problem
No problem with the redesign of the intersection confirmed to the
Board.
John Kain felt that under Item f.) that the Systems should be desi_.ed
to city standards, the words should, should be would. Stokes said
Mr. Russell was willing to put the water in to city standards.
60' r/w county paved, no curb and gutters was sited.
Mr. Lauman who has 2 (201) easements on the roadway and wanted to
know if these would stand as is until future planning. They're on
the north and south. Wished to know if they would remain as they
are now? Unless relocated or abandoned would remain as they are.
Felt that perhaps before the Board went further would need to see
a site drainage plan. Nice to say it was going to be contoured,
but would like to see how. Would like to see, enlight of the soils
information; what it would be, 'it is severe for septic, ability,
stability, and don't know how this Board could make a recommendation
as R-2 zoning and no question that it could become subdivision ground
but need more information and need something from the Sanitarian
and everything could change those lot sizes from 1/2 Acre to 3/4
Acre and not enough ground for the septic or replacement area after
putting a house on'it. Don't believe there is enough information
on soils or site drainage or a firm commitment.' What is the fill,
how is it going to be contoured, what is the proposal and the status,
`a little bit too thin on what is going to be done.
John Kain wished to know where the surface water would be drained O
to, which direction? Stokes said it drains toward the County Shop
and the drainage plan is available. 'Board felt it should be indicated
better. Can't tell which are existing and which are new contours.
The Board'would like to see the existing contours as long as these
are the new ones. 1.Like to know what is happening to the ones next
door:
Want to know what happen°s to the water once it does come out of there.
It was determined that the County Shops fill part of that swale system
down there. °Concern was the potential contamination on the county
hospital well. Stokes said that 1. they were going to monitor the
ground water, 2. going to try to select material and pin down some
drainage field sites on the lots and'3. agreed to send some soil
samples into a testing lab rather than relying on the old percolation
test data. Actually have these tested to determine what needed to
be done in order to satisfy the Sanitarian regulations.
Have not 'altered the natural'drainage.
John Kain moved that this request be tabled until the Board received
some written information on the position of the County Sanitarian.
Questioned whether"Mr. Russell and'Mr. Stokes should bring back some
topographical data and drainage plan changes, etc. Questioned was
the time element? Stokes said it was just a matter of drawing it
bigger,'etc. whatever was needed. John Kain then so amended and O
included this in his conditional motion. Jim Thompson would like
to seethe topography when brought back. Feels that the contour
is being pushed back to the property fine making a vertical bank
against the adjacent property owners, which didn't look too good
\ 2.
Meridian Manor
Townhouses:
E side of Meridian
Rd across from Libert
Street inter. &
N. of Underhill Addn,
Tracts 6BO,6BI,
6BH and 6BG, Sec. 7
T28N, R21W.
(Moved to rec.
disapproval).
to him. Stokes said this could be softened. This was seconded by
Jim Thompson. President.Lupton stated that it was moved and seconded
that this proposal be tabled until additional information be obtained
concerning topography, etc. Motion carried unanimously.
President Lupton asked for a show of hands from people present for
the various proposals and it was decided to have Meridian Manor
Townhouses heard 1st, Country Estates, 2nd and Sunrise Addition last.
President Lupton then called upon Jim Mohn to give a presentation
on the Meridian Manor Townhouses. Jim stated this was a dual
purpose proposal and then gave a brief description of the location.
yJim stated that the developers had requested two parcels, with
each approximately 3/4 of an acre for B-1 commercial. (copy of
Staff Report attached).
Jim stated that all opposition relate.,,d to the commercial aspect
of the proposal and very little if any comment on the residential
aspects of the project.
Jim then thorough discussed the access.
Jim did explain that the R-5 zoning did address the townhouse plan
and the B1 was neighborhood business district and stated that the
Staff did question the basis for providing such a neighborhood
district knowing that a lot of the uses permitted in the B-1 are
available within a mile of the site, with Circle K located within
a 4 of a mile of the site. Hestated there were also some neigh—
borhood professional located just north of the site.
Jim stated there were three options, see Summary Remarks III, which
he proceeded to read.
The meeting was then turned -over to public comment.
The developer, Mr. Schaffer, stated that Jim had pretty much
covered what was proposed except for some aspects. Said that what
he had in mind was basically an adult only community. And as such
the things that the Staff has recommended does not fit what they
should like to do. The developers felt that this would be for
the retired and semiretired families. The need for this was borne
out by a: strong interest .in retirement age who don't qualify for
subsidized housing and,yet,don't;:need the large homes that theyi
have, like to be out of them with a maintenance free concept.
One recommendation was the access road be rerouted so that it would
be opposite>.� Were ab,ls ,:tor do that- The property lines does not
-line up with the edge of Liberty, it:;is about 15' or so offset,
so if the road is pinned down so could dedicate that half, so the
zoning could be good for that for foot traffic through there.
Could be given as a .dedication easement, from the school and
through the alley way. The staff report indicates that whatever
happens:om this piece that there .be a frontage road. The report
may give the impression that that was requested or stated by the
State• Highway Dept. and: it was, not: , That was strictly a
recommendation-by.the APO Staff without benefit of highway comment.
Sp.ent.timeiwith the,.highway :department and they are not concerned
about a frontage road -on Meridian. and are concerned about the
3.
access and having the intersection done the way it was recommended.
Mr. Schaffer said a couple of letters which refer to B-3 zoning,
which might be misrepresented so that some who signed have rejected
but don't know anything about that. Do question the applicabili(
of putting B-3 zoning in a report that is concerned with B-1 zoning'
which he felt was a significant amount of difference and don't
think a B-3 was applicable. Felt that the Staff didn't feel there
was a need for commercial property at this time in that area and
that there was commercial within a mile which had most of the B-1
classifications and would like to point out that there was some
that were not within a quarter of a mile and wondered where the
Staff got the feeling as have had two unsolicited requests for
space if it were developed and:further consideration on the busines
zoning, and 1.) recommending that it be all R-4, as basically all
surrounding areas to that, which creates a high density and
increased high density and an increased.demand for neighborhood
commercial.
The Highway Dept. was surposed at the amount of 'letters about
widening Meridian as the State Highway Dept. was already planning
on widening Meridian and presume that the Staff is aware of that
as an authorization has been done to do.a survey and as of this
afternoon and if the shopping center goes in on North Meridian
they 'anticipate this being not just a widened but a four lane major
arterial road. As the traffic volume increases the value as commer
ciaL property increases and its desirability as residential
decreases. By trying to limit.residential, it isn't going to work
unless you limit the traffic., Felt'that the traffic flow on this
road wasn't going to stop no matter whether you zone or don't s zoU
It'going to,tip the scale that way anyway.
Mr. Schaffer felt that B-1 was the proper zoning for the frontage
on Meridian and that the townhouses would act as a buffer. Said
he di& a survey starting at the railroad tracks and felt that over
75% of the land use already is commercial. Don't know what the
proper zone would be for the fairgrounds but it certainly wasn't
residential. You can conduct a lot of things on the fairgrounds
except fairs. Feel that what:was being asked for fit what was
happening inthe area.
Jim Thompson wished to know if he had a drainage plan? Was advised
no', but the contour was a constant line starting in the corner
and runs:in a southwesterly direction. Collect in the center and
bring it out to Meridian.
John Kain said there was a spur drainage problem on West Arizona
and wondered whether they had given any thought that there maybe
some r/;w deemed necessary within that area to get some sort of
storm sewer system in there.,.
Mr. Schaffer advised no they haven't. Felt that the strip, by
putting the road there, would become non -useful would also provide
area for drainage out to Meridian:
Concern was expressed for the layout'of36' r/w down between all
those townhouse units, by limiting the access and not having a O
through street you would enhance the security aspect of your
proposed development, however was it not true that you would have
4.
a considerable amount of family adult units in that area, that
you have limited parking, which means you would end up with on
street parking and would not a fire and ambulance injured for its
availability to get to and from any given limit as opposed to
security as suggested. Mr. Schaffer said they had agreed to widen
this to 40' and reviewed with fire department. At 36' they would
still have access, and at 40' comparable access and requested that
it be 401. As far as parking, had an abundance of parking. This
Then proceeded to indicate them stating that 24' was adequate for
two cars and parking.
Have roughly 3 — 4 off—street parking spaces per living unit.
Areas for turnaround are in excess of the amount required for the
largest truck.
Jim Thompson questioned the comment on the turnaround for the fire
equipment. Jim said the largest ladder truck takes a 100' radius
and the smallest one takes 801, and unless they changed their
policy within the last 30 days they will not back up their truck.
Mr. Schaffer said they laid it out for. them :and they said no
problem they could back it out. Must be the new fire chief -because
they would not do that in the past. Mr. Schaffer. said to take
a look you wouldn't have to back out of the subdivision.
John Kain said between units 8 and 15, a 24' wide street with on —
street parking, on one side Mr. Schaffer said. Mr. Kain said
what about Unit 15, if this -is for 8? Mr. Schaffer said there
was, —extra' --parking in --the added pavement area. Put a lot of paving
in deliberately, to be used for parking. John Kain was concerned
that there be adequate space, for any emergency vehicle which
leaves only 8' in the middle which isn't much when you have parking
on both sides.
After additional comments on the traffic problems, Jim Thompson
said he was not a fan on deadend streets and without an adequate
turnaround and always someone to get to the end and the design
has to accommodate without deadend. Should be accommodated.
Jim Thompson's personal opinion was that the proposal was just
not acceptable as presented. Fran 011endike said she concurred
with Jim, and she was opposed to the B-1 and felt that the entire
neighborhood had been polled, with many public hearings and do
not believe in the deadend streets, and there should be an overall
traffic pattern without all these people spilling out onto Meridian
Road. Should have another access to get out more easily, specially
older people. Like the townhouse concept though. John Kain felt
consideration should be given to water main and would almost have
to give flat no's to cul—de—sac water stubs.
President Lupton felt that due to the feelings of the Board
entertained a motion at this time. Jim Thompson moved that the
Board reject the proposal on the grounds that it is not in full
concurrence with the Comprehensive Plan and the inadequate design
as far as traffic flow was concerned. Jim Thompson said he
recommended disapproval; Dorothy Garvin seconded the motion. Motion
carried.
President Lupton advised Mr. Schaffer that a letter would go to
the City Council advising the Board's recommendation and do intend
5.
Country Estates
Unit No. 1
W of US Hwy 93N
between W. Reserve &
Stillwater River, EZ
of SEk, Sec. 25, T29N, R22W:
UNIT NO. 1 & MASTER
PLAN. 48 lots Res:
Use in Unit. #1 &
211 in Master Plan.
(Denied)
to some of the points will be stressed. The residential area is
an excellent proposal and perhaps he`could find a way financially
for it to be advantageous by increasing the dwelling units per
acre and carry forth the residential plan.
INSERT HERE THE VERBATIM TRANSCRIPT ON:
COUNTRY ESTATES UNIT NO. 1
Pages. 1, through 12 Incl.
Mp