10-15-87 Planning BoardKALISPELL CITY -COUNTY PLANNING BOARD AND ZONING COMMISSION
MINUTES OF MEETING
OCTOBER 15, 1987
CALL TO ORDER The meeting was called to order by Vice President, James Stephens, at
AND ROLL CALL 7:30 p.m. Those present were Stephens, Trippet, Hall, Sloan and Hash.
Those absent were Reynolds, Gunnerson, Treweek, and Manning. David
Greer, Senior Planner, represented the Flathead Regional Development
Office.
MINUTES SEPTEMBER Sloan moved to approve the minutes of the meeting held on September
9, 1987 9, 1987. Hall seconded the motion and it passed unanimously.
OLD BUSINESS Greer informed the Board that the Kalispell City Council has had one
reading of the ordinance that would reduce the number of zoning
classifications from 32 to 16 in the City Zoning Ordinance. He stated
that the second reading would be soon and could see no problem with
its passage. He suggested that possibly at the next months meeting
the Board would be looking at some necessary revisions to the text of
the City Zoning Ordinance.
NEW BUSINESS Hash asked when the County Commissioners would be holding the public
hearing on the West Side Zoning District? Greer stated that it is
scheduled for November 3, 1987. Trippet asked if the Board would be
proceeding with the possibility of proposing zoning for the Evergreen
area after the West Side Zoning District is completed? Greer stated
that there has been a complication with the legal notice budget of
the County because the legal notices have been costing more than
anticipated and consequently were not budgeted for. It is very likely
that we may not be able to proceed with that zoning until the next
fiscal year unless we can find a way to print shorter legal notices.
WORKSHOP WITH Hall asked Stephens to read to the audience the minutes of the
SIGN REGULATIONS meeting of September 9, 1987 concerning the proposed sign
AD HOC COMMITTEE regulations. The meeting adjourned at 7:45 p.m. and reconvened at
7:50 p.m. in order to allow time for David Greer to set up the slide
show of how Fort Collins was affected by the adoption of a sign
ordinance. The members of the ad hoc sign committee that were present
were Brent Hall, Nick Haren, Larry McRae, Ross Plambeck, James E.
Vidal, Gary Hoxmer, and Gary Collier. There were about 7 other
members of the audience interested in the sign regulations.
Trippet opened the discussion by giving some background on sign
regulations within the city limits of Kalispell. He interjected that
there may not be as much support for sign regulations as previously
thought. He felt that sign regulations might not be in the best
interest of the local businessman and felt that there is already too
much government intervention in the operation of a business today. He
looked upon this as another unnecessary government regulation. Greer
commented that the purpose of this meeting is to evaluate a draft
proposal as a starting point. The other purpose is to get the input
of the ad hoc sign committee regarding the proposal and find some
common ground to agree on. He stated that the sign proposal being
discussed tonight is not the proposal that would finally go to the
city council since there is a lot of work to be done on these and
public hearings to go through in order to come up with a final
product that can be presented to the city council.
Gary Hoxmer felt that proposing sign regulations was totally
ridiculous. Too many of the provisions of the proposal will cost the
average businessman too much money. He asked how a person could be
expected to move a sign 40 feet from the road right-of-way when their
business didn't sit that far back. He did feel that the proposed
square footage of the signs themselves was okay. He objected to no
neon tubing and the disallowance of message signs.
Larry McRae stated that he found a lot of the provisions of the
proposed sign regulations to be tough on the business place. He said
that the Outlaw Inn's signs would be too high and the neon would have
to be removed. Most of the business need the right to advertise. All
businesses are having a tough enough time without the addition of
expenses due to a sign ordinance. Many of the businesses would not be
making it if it were not for owners with deep pockets.
Art Lindlief, a member of the audience and owner of Pancho Magoos,
felt that different businesses have different needs. His business
deals a lot with tourists and they need to find him easily. Local
people might not need a sign but the tourist does pay a lot of
attention to the signs.
Comments were raised concerning the absence of a grandfather clause
and forcing the businesses to make their signs conforming within five
years. Greer commented that there are alternative ways of amortizing
signs and the proposal is not written in stone. If the city ever
hoped to bring all signs into conformance then there would have to be
some sort of time table for that to happen.
Val Nelson reiterated the words of Larry Macrae saying that 80% of
his business in the summer is tourist trade and signs contribute
greatly to that. He also stated that he would not have 40 feet of
property to move his sign back on.
Ross Plambeck stated that the institution of sign regulations should
be a cooperative effort. Through that sort of effort on the part of
the main street owners, the appearance of main street has been
cleaned up. He felt there were some conflicts in the proposed sign
ordinance and that there are usually some who feel more strongly
about one provision as opposed to the other. What needs to be done is
to identify those provisions that are agreeable and then work from
there. He felt that it is wrong to feel that sign regulations are not
needed since many members of the public and the business community
has expressed a desire for some sort of regulations. As has been
proven by the example of Fort Collins, there are many businesses
looking to relocate and one of the deciding factors has been whether
or not a town has adequate property protecting regulations and
ordinances in effect.
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Nick Haren echoed what Ross Plambeck stated and added that the task
- of this workshop should be to isolate those issues that are good and
make sure that they are included and then isolate problems and see if
solutions can be reached. The task will never be accomplished if what
is good and bad is not isolated and it certainly will not all get
done now.
Doug Johns stated that -he is opposed to any form of sign regulations
as he did not feel that this was free enterprise but rather stifled
the businessman's right to conduct business as he sees fit. He felt
that as long as a sign is safely erected then it should be allowed.
Ross Plambeck stated that the task force that surveyed the public
found that there is support for some form of sign regulations and
that this is the place to begin answering the demand.
Fred Zauner felt that the down town area is real nice right now but
has a real concern when government keeps getting more and more into
the business of running private businesses with rules and
regulations. Zauner felt that if you want that kind of regulation you
could go to Russia for it. Trippet interjected that if a sign
regulation like this proposal gets passed then next the government
will be telling us when we can open and close our doors.
Gary Collier asked where the survey results are as he has not talked
to anyone in the business community that felt an ordinance was
needed. He added that the city council has never had a call
requesting sign regulations.
Sloan stated that we need to go back to why a sign ordinance is being
considered. The area is being called a tourist area and new
promotions are being prepared to try to attract new visitors to the
area. In conjunction with that promotion there should be an effort to
clean up the area and make ourselves more presentable to these
visitors. Nobody is trying to put anyone out of business.
Fred Zauner stated that we hear that there are others who are in
favor of sign regulations and perhaps they should be involved in this
process.
Larry McCrae asked who was polled in regards to the need for sign
regulations?
Greer stated that organized groups of people representing retail
trades, builders, and etc. were polled and by far and large the
majority wanted some form of sign regulations.
Larry Wilson of Burger King stated that he felt sign regulations
would in the long run make each businesses signage more effective and
suggested that they start with a simple proposal.
Craig Kerzman stated that from the standpoint of a private citizen he
finds the current signage of many businesses offensive. He resented
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having to leave town in order to see the mountains that surround the
i� valley or to find something beautiful to look at. From the standpoint
of a tourist, they are here for the scenery and would probably
appreciate being able to see it while in the city.
Stephens stated that if the Board is to proceed on with the formation
of sign regulations there will have to be a great deal of review. The
Board does not wish to present something to the city council that is
•doomed to failure. This is why the ad hoc sign committee was formed
so that we could get some constructive input to work with.
Trippet suggested taking a poll to find out what kind of support
there is and that would probably end all discussion.
James Vidal stated that he felt the process for getting reasonable
sign regulations in force should first include education of the
businesses and the general public. He added that the city council has
never been on record that they want a sign ordinance. The community
may not be ready for a sign ordinance due to a lack of education and
not having any knowledge on the benefits of such an ordinance.
Greer stated that the intent from the very beginning has been to find
what is good for the community and proceed forward. The proposal
before us is a comprehensive sign regulation but the final proposal
does not need to be this comprehensive. He added that meetings of
this nature will not get the Board any closer to finding solutions to
some of these problems that exist. There is a need to constructively
begin to find common ground and determine to work out solutions to
problems.
Doug Johns felt that James Vidal's comments were valid.
Art Lindlief stated that when he wants to do something in regards to
his business he objects to having to come to committee to get
approval.
Motion Trippet moved to start a petition drive for the community to express
its wishes yea or nay to a sign ordinance. The motion died for lack
of a second.
ADJOURNMENT Sloan moved to adjourn the meeting and Hall seconded the motion. The
meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m.
ames Stephens, ice esident Ava Walters, Recording Secretary
Approved:
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